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Welcome to the gyroscope forum. If you have a question about gyroscopes in general,
want to know how they work, or what they can be used for then you can leave your question here for others to answer.
You may also be able to help others by answering some of the questions on the site.
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Question |
| Asked by: |
Glenn Hawkins |
| Subject: |
explanations |
| Question: |
I will be the first of my kind in three hundred years, the first in four hundred books, to explain precession.
EXAMPLE ONE:
A small rocket ship, ‘Alpha’ is coasting though space with a momentum of 100 (x)s toward a destination I00 feet away. A smaller rocket ship ‘Beta’, 1/10 the size of ‘Alpha’ is welded to the side of ship ‘Alpha’.
Rocket ship ‘Beta’ thrusts at a constant force equal to 10 (x)s every ten feet.
Ship Beta forces ship Alpha to bend its path, until after 100 feet ship Alpha arrives at its destination at a 45o angle from its demarcation line.
EXAMPLE TWO:
If you maintain the same conditions, except you increase the momentum of ship Alpha 10 times, by increasing its coasting speed 10 times, it will arrive at its destination at a 4.5o angle from its demarcation line.
EXAMPLE THREE:
If you maintain the same conditions, except you increase the momentum of ship Alpha 10,000 times, by increasing its coasting speed 10,000 times, it will arrive at its destination at a .0045o angle from its demarcation line.
If Alpha is traveling fast enough the angle between demarcation and arrival will appear to be 180o, a straight line, but it won’t be straight. Always the Alpha course will respond to sideways Beta force no matter how little.
Are you beginning to see how a gyroscope is able to resist tilting? During one full revolution a point of mass experiences constant change of direction. We can break this down to four varying right angles, two opposite directions top and bottom and a full return to the original direction. The point you wish to remember is that if Alpha were part of the mass traveling in a circle such as in a gyroscope flywheel, the faster the rotation, the greater the resistance to tilt, because of the relationship of time to distance-- speed. Actually rotating matter will acquire twice the resistance to sideways force than linear velocity at the same speed, because matter in rotation travels in two directions to pi circumference measurements and so on.
It is all about speed. The faster matter travels the less time it has to react at angles to force. This is the reason, time and velocity, that a gyroscope resist tilting and the reason that the faster and greater amount of matter is introduced the greater the resistance.
Thought matter in a gyroscope may be made to spin so fast that precession could last far into the distance future, a thousand years, still the flywheel must constantly yield to at least to some near infinitesimal amount of an angle, or it cannot hold aloft and perform precession.
I could not explain precession, the how and why of it all, until after I had explained this. Ask, certainly if I failed to explain this clearly enough. ‘Be with you latter. I’ll return.
45o
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-------------------------------------------- Glenn
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| Date: |
17 December 2008
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| report abuse
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Answers (Ordered by Date)
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 17/12/2008 21:08:44
| | | Blast it. This thing won’t do spacing as you add and write with spaces and tabs. It won’t allow for even a simple little Xs and Os angular drawings. Forget the Xs drawing. Just read.
I'll add more later.
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 18/12/2008 15:06:08
| | | Here are more examples of how and why a gyroscope resist tilting. I hope with this we headed toward reaching individual understandings that will allow each of us to answer our own questions about our ideas and designs past and future, as to which ones will work and which ones won‘t and knowing why.
EXAMPLE ONE
Suppose there were a wall of magnets 10 feet long and you threw a metal ball parallel to the magnetic wall at 10 miles per hour. The ball would curve toward the wall.
EXAMPLE TWO
Suppose this time you threw a metal ball parallel to the magnetic wall at 100 miles per hour. The ball would curve toward the wall much less, because the magnetic wall would have less time to exert it‘s force.
EXAMPLE TWO
Suppose another time you could and did throw a metal ball parallel to the magnetic wall at 100,000 miles per hour. Again the ball would in fact curve toward the wall, but so very little it would seem not to curve at all.
In the same way to do with speed and time the faster a gyroscope is rotated the less time there is for its mass to be diverted from its plain of rotation, and so it can yield to tilting so slowly that we can say it simply resist tilting, but what we actually mean is it resist quick tilting. Tilting during extremely high RPMs can continue so slowly as to last for years.
Now we come to the concept of the magnitude of resistance to tilting. As greater force is applied to cause tilt, tilting occurs faster and because tilt is quickened the magnitude of resistance increases in proportion to the magnitude of force applied. I think a supper gyroscope could be manufactured, weighing ten pounds, that could support precession carrying one ton of weight for twenty minutes before collapsing.
We could also have looked at orbits of bodies in space under gravity for examples about how speed and time create sideways inertial resistance during straight line linear traveling and sideways inertial resistance to tilt from straight-plane rotational traveling, but we have enough examples of ‘how’ and ‘why’. From this basic understanding we can next go into understanding precession.
Glenn
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| Answer: |
P. - 18/12/2008 17:19:59
| | | U do not have 2 believe CRACKPOTS!
P.
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 18/12/2008 18:25:41
| | | You poor guy. You can’t influence anyone without using reason, logic, knowledge and argument, especially if you are too sneaking and afraid to say who you are.
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 19/12/2008 04:41:30
| | | Patrick, my computer says that the last ‘crackpot’ message came from you.
COMPUTER READ OUT: [[[[ THAT PERSON WAS "P." (patrick@hotmail.com) ]]]]
But I don’t believe it. That is not your address and not your nature. And the other ‘crackpot’ name calling appears to have come from German translation to English. So before I learn who is impersonating you and calling me names I want to ask you for a definite statement. Did you call me crackpot?
Glenn Hawkins
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| Answer: |
P. - 19/12/2008 13:21:13
| | | you r compputer is a crackpot! The re r many PATRICK! R u shitin me or what !!
P.
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 19/12/2008 15:38:17
| | | PATRICK
Real, or copycat?
Come on now. Don’t be a sniveling, back-stabbing coward loathed below pig shit by all men through out time. When you attack, say who you are. Stop being a girly-man. Be bold. Be strong. Be a man. Be forthright. Then you’ll stop hating your own dim-witted, frightened self so much.
I have asked you for a “DEFINITE” statement.
Are you Patrick Hill from the UK?
Yes, or no?
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 19/12/2008 19:39:07
| | | Dear Patrick Hill,
You do not understand. I have failed to make myself abundantly clear. These three quotes below are the only ones I ask about. These are not your quotes. The return mail address is not yours. The third quote was I suspect was made by someone impersonating your way of writing. I have reasons for my suspicions. What I am asking you now is to verify that you did not send these messages below dated, 12/11/08, 12/11/08 and the 12/18/08. These three are the only messages I ask you about.
YOU MUST TRY, YOU MUST TRY, YOU MUST TRY TO ANSWER, YES, OR NO. I know it’s very difficult to hold study and give a straight, simple reply. I’m sorry to ask you, being that it is difficult for you, but please try.
"SIXTH LAW: Don't read anything from crackpots!"
[[[THAT PERSON WAS "Stephen Hawking" (adkjashdash@hotmail.com)]]]
……………………………….................
12/11/08
"FOURTH LAW: Don't believe crackpots!"
[[[[THAT PERSON WAS "Albert Einstein" (a.einstein@xyz.org)]]]
……………………………….................
12/18/08
"U do not have 2 believe CRACKPOTS!
P." [[[THAT PERSON WAS "P." (patrick@hotmail.com)]]]
It is really sad that someone would try to impersonate a special kind of person like you and separate him from his only pal here.
Say it wasn‘t you, Patrick.
Merry Christmas,
Glenn
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 19/12/2008 20:14:14
| | |
BACK TO PRECESSION
We have to be able to set-up thought experiments and apply imagine in order to convey and understand. Luis Gonzales is actually doing a good job of that right now on another thread. So here we go establishing ways to think. ‘Here we go a reason, Mister Mose.’
Let us for the moment ignore the action that causes a gyroscope to precess. Instead we will concern our selves at this stage only with how a spinning gyroscope setting on the floor holds itself upright against falling. One thing at a time.
Let us build a block wall. Near the center let us cut a very large hole. In the center of the block wall hole let us put a very large gyroscope that is a smug fit. Let us then hinge the bottom of the gyroscope to the bottom of the block hole and glue the rest of the gyro to the inside of the block hole with rubber. Next we pull down one side of the axel of the gyro. The bottom of the gyro swivels at it’s attachment to the bottom block hole. We pull the gyro all the way to the ground and hold it study. Can you now imagine the strings of black rubber stretched from the rim of the gyroscope to the circumference of the block hold? See that each of the strings stretch at varying distances, because the gyroscope has been tilted from its vertical position.
It is interesting to consider why the above example dose not represent gyroscopic resistance. The rubber strand are maintaining a constant elastic tension in trying to pull the gyro upright to where it once was. In the above example, if we remove the rubber and cause the gyro to spin, then it will also resist being tilted to the grown, but the difference is there is no elastic tension to pull the gyro upward. After each degree a spinning gyroscope is tilted, it’s past position of resistance collapses and its present condition only resist tilting further into the future-- toward the ground.
Now that we have seen the elastic lines like arrows pointing in directions we can build a more exacting mental image to vision in our minds what happens. I add, still working in the vertical sense, not in the precession around a furculum sense. In other words we are still concerned only with why a gyro sitting on the floor doesn’t topple over, not why it twist and wabbles round and round like a top.
Back to the hole in the wall and the same set up as before, but without the rubber. This time we are going to glue long lines of matchsticks together. In our minds lean the sticks from the grown in various right angled alignments to the rim of the large gyroscope. After the gyroscope has been spun up, force it to lean over into the right angle lines of the matchsticks. As the gyro is tilted further and further toward the ground the upper most matchsticks collapse first in a descending order of matchsticks downward. You could also imagine collapsing, rupturing air bag as the gyro is tilted. Resistance exist by degrees. Once resistance is broken and overcome it is finished and then a new set of degrees resistance exist.
Earlier you learned why and how a gyro resist tilting, that was speed and time. With this post you learned how to perceive coordinated lines like arrows of resistance and a way to perceive the nature of non-elastic gyroscopic resistance. Once again, when resistance is overcome there is no remnant effect. It’s over and done with as if it had never happened. The action is absorbed and dose not cause a further vertical reaction, though the action was vertical. Where the reaction goes to viva deflection is into creating precession. We will discover these same kind of resistant conditions are involved, before, during and after precession. But don‘t be concerned about that right now. There is an awful lot of explaining yet to be done.
More later, Glenn
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Glenn Hawkins - 20/12/2008 19:09:21
| | |
We will divert to study angular collisions. Later I will put all these different thought tools together to reason how precession works.
Collision. . . A round ball made of rubber, or steel as you like, is traveling through space. Another ball of like size and mass and speed is traveling in a course that will intersect and collide with the first ball at a right angle, a sideways 90o collision angle. The result will be that both balls become paired together and travel away from the collision, each at a 45o angled path from the path it came. You can see this happen on a billiards table where two ball travel into one another at the same speed at a 90o collision angle and see how they are deflected into paired 45o paths out from the collision, but it might be difficult to get the speeds and directions and timing exact.
Mentally construct a special rotating mechanism. Take a dozen wires of equal length and wire one end of each together with one end of all the others to form a spoke wheel without a rim. On the open ends of each wire connect a ball. Connect this spoke/wheel to a bicycle front fork and anchor the free end of the fork to a hinge connected to the floor. As you rotate this ball/spoke magnesium it acts like a wheel and centrifuge will force all the balls outward at equal distance from the center and equal distance from one another. The height of this ball/spoke wheel is about shoulder high to the average man. Three men standing beside the wheel, simultaneously throw three balls into the top three balls that have rotated to the top. All the ball are the same size and same mass and are thrown at the exact speed of the rotating balls. At the very instant just before the collisions the wires holding the top rotating balls break. Then collusion! And what happens to the three rotating balls and the three sticking balls? All are deflected at a sideways, 45o direction from the plain of rotation.
If you can keep working with these ideas, until the action is etched well in your mind, then you can understand how tilting a spinning wheel effects centrifuge and causes the force and pressure of centrifuge to be deflected at a direction away from the plain of rotation.
When you tilt a gyroscope you bend the direction of centrifuge. During tilting some areas of the wheel are tilted further than other areas and so more force is applied gradually further out from the hinging point. Also there is a ratio between tilting force and centrifuge force. Whichever is stronger controls the angle and line of deflection.
More later, Glenn
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| Answer: |
PATRICK - 21/12/2008 09:03:20
| | | GLENN
u did not need to ask realy, for one P and einstine, Obv i hav caused an infliction because my typing was never this bad but some low life dick has corrupted my type in this forum. either they have a problem with thier own personality and have insecurities within themselves or are trying to corupt our compliance.How strange that i precluded this but will ans to address given in writen word.
And how immature of a soul 2 preclide in this manner of which does not undermine nor afflict to myself in any manner,HOW VERY VERY SAD, I must have the confidence i knew i had and the arrogance and more knolage that prevails 2 surcome 2 this most jelous act of our relationship...................DIDi not give my mobile and address TO WHOEVER TH SOFT WEAK INSECURE PRICK IS THAT HAS CAUSED A VERY SMALL GLICH IN MY TYPE EROR. HOW SAD....Maybee you can interupt my letters to glennn in the old fasioned way of fucking byro
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PATRICK - 21/12/2008 09:27:20
| | | GLENN
jus read over what i sent and typing comes out more clear on forum but as i input type in words are very muddled as i type is this an easily solvable thing!
Not that it matters as i will correspond in the eighties way of envolope and stamp to hopefully have a one 2 one relationship that cannot b interfeired with and PS i bet intr was spelt wrong.
I cannot state how mad or actually more under durress of some sad asses jovial atemt to create a problem!
GO AND ASK YOUR DAD OR MUM TO TRY AGAIN TO LUV U OR U MUST COME AND SEE ME IF U WOULD LIKE 2 HEAR MORE ABOUT FLUIDICITY AROUND CREATIVE PRIMES IN A SIMPLIFIED ENGINE OF REPULTION AT AN ATOMIC LEVEL,And very much more that u have no idea of your own,Ha HA ha go and see mummy!
Not 4 u glenn by the way incase u were worried.
Who can these people be?
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| Answer: |
PATRICK - 21/12/2008 09:43:40
| | | GLENN
Could this be luis to glitch us, as was last!
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| Answer: |
PATRICK - 21/12/2008 09:49:23
| | | GLENN
2 get answers to go through is hard due 2 my type messed entries.
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| Answer: |
PATRICK - 21/12/2008 13:21:55
| | | GLENN
Or could this be the arogant guy hary? WHAT A SAD ASS!!!!!!!!
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Glenn Hawkins - 21/12/2008 19:37:16
| | | Harry K.,
Patrick did not send these two messages.
(1.) “Could this be luis to glitch us, as was last!”
(2.) “Or could this be the arogant guy hary? WHAT A SAD ASS!!!!!!!!”
Nevertheless Harry, you might have sent them. You might be the culprit through all of this, but that is not Luis’ stile. He wouldn't stoop down to it as I clearly comprehend him from his writing. It seems you leave a signature that you are not aware of when you convert German thought and languish into English. I will not explain this to you. Harry K. tell me something. Say you are not polluting my efforts to give something to the people, and say you are not hiding and trying to hurt Patrick and say you are not trying to anger Luis toward Patrick. Convince me please and I will give you in return the most sincere and humble apology you could ever imagine.
Glenn
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 21/12/2008 20:15:21
| | | Patrick,
Chin up. Tally ho. British stiff upper lip etc., etc. Don’t let it bother you any more. You should have been angry. Now we’ll forget about it. ‘ No question that I knew it wasn’t you all along. We make a pack now to refuse to let a silly guy dominate our time, emotions and thoughts any more. O.K.?
Wow! Christmas is getting near. ‘ Think I ought to force myself to go shopping for presents? I used to love to buy presents for my little kids. I LOVED THAT. They are grown and gone. Most men don’t otherwise like to go shopping at all. I’m depending on my wife to give me a kick me the ass and get me started before it’s too late. We are going to stay at a very old land mark convention center ‘The Chattanooga Choo Choo’ to eat, dance, drank and be merry and sleep the New Year away. Wish us luck.
Farewell for now,
Glenn
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Glenn Hawkins - 21/12/2008 23:13:36
| | | Patrick, You wrote, “jus read over what i sent and typing comes out more clear on forum but as i input type in words are very muddled as i type is this an easily solvable thing!”
You have a word processor. Type your message in it‘s spread sheet. Then it’s your option whether to use your spell checker. It doesn‘t matter. When your finished typing pull down ‘edit’ and select ‘select all’. Your message will turn black. Go back to edit and select ‘copy’ then open the forum and click ‘past’ to place your message from edit to the forum you've been typing in. Ask if you need more info.
Glenn,
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Glenn Hawkins - 22/12/2008 18:14:53
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REVIEW
The first explanation was: ….‘A small rocket ship, ‘Alpha’.
The second explanation was: ‘Suppose there were a wall of magnets 10 feet long.’
The third explanation was: ‘…Let us build a block wall and cut a very large hole.’
The fourth explanation was: ..‘Collision. . . A round ball made of rubber, or steel.’
The first explains:
The resistance of traveling mater to change its linear course is determined by Time, or rather by speed, which is a measure of time passing during a determined length of distance traveled. The course of mater traveling from point A. to point B. will be changed when acted upon by a sideways force. The path will be bent. The amount of course change is determined among other things, by how much time a sideways force has to act, while matter is traveling from point A. to point B. If matter is traveling very, very fast it will resist a sideways force bending its path very, very powerfully during a measured very, very short distances traveled.
The second:
This is a reiteration of the first example, but uses mental visuals of magnet force acting to bend the course of traveling matter at various time intervals to reiterate the first example.
The third:
This relates that mater in rotation seeks to maintain its course in the plain of its rotation and thereby will resist a sideways force that is changing its plain of rotation such as in tilting. The same as mater traveling in a straight line, and for the same reasons. Also, the distance during which sideways force causes a gyroscope to tilt is half the length of the circumference of its flywheel, because mater in rotation travels in two directions such as north, then south, then north again. We discern then that mater traveling at very high RPMs, relating to diameter, is traveling so blindingly fast, the distance it travels repeated again and again north to south and back that the time allowed for sideways force to act is so short, in so short a distance, and fast, that resistance to tilting can be relatively tremendously powerful-- enough to slow a gyroscope from falling off a pedestal for a very long time, in a perfect arrangement-- years. In such a perfect arrangement the gyroscope would seem not to respond to tilting at all, but of course it would, even as it resisted tilting.
The forth example.
This is a way of visualizing how a force that causes tilting actually bends the direction of centrifuge and that the degree and direction of bent centrifuge is determined by a ratio between the force of angular momentum, relative to the magnitude of force applied to cause tilting.
I understand this is all very difficult. Don’t question my abilities yet, and especially don’t question your abilities to perceive. You matter. You are important in this universe. You just have to be, you have to be that‘s all. You can understand if you wish, though this is hard stuff and I have had to invest a great deal of time to learn the mechanical ways of understanding from scratch, because there were no suitable mechanical explanations. None at all existed. Understanding requires three dimensional visualization, but you can do it. I recommend that you keep rereading these examples every day and trying to apply you own examples then taking a break for a week then back again for more daily review for as long as it takes, until it all becomes clear and simple and about as easy as walking and as certain and sure. It is worth it? It depends on you. Some of us have a life long desire to understand our apparatus’ well enough to know without question, if they will work and know with certainty in the why and how of it all.
Next. . . torque! We have such a long, long ways to go.
Glenn,
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Glenn Hawkins - 24/12/2008 04:33:09
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PATRICK,
CHECK THIS POST OUT, THE LAST ON YOU POSTED IN.
THE SOURCES OF SOME THEORETICAL CONFUSION
http://www.gyroscopes.org/forum/questions.asp?id=891
GLENN,
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Glenn Hawkins - 27/12/2008 21:00:10
| | | Strange
Rear view: Imagine sighting a non-spinning gyroscope, with one end of it’s axial setting on a pedestal and you are holding the gyroscope up at a 45o angle up from the pedestal. Do a stick drawing of that. The pedestal is represented by a two line pyramid. The axial of the gyros is a straight 45o line mark up from the top of the pedestal. The flywheel is a cross mark centered in the middle of the 45o axial line.
Do the same thing with another stick drawing of a gyroscope setting on the same pedestal, except draw this one setting horizontally at a 90o angle.
You have a total of six lines. The top gyroscope represents the past position of the gyroscope. The horizontal gyroscope represents the present position of the gyroscope. The past has fallen down to the present, just as would a gyroscope tilt that was not spinning.
Four more lines: Draw a straight ‘thin line’ from the TOP of the PAST gyroscope’ down to the bottom of the page. Draw another straight ‘thin line’ from the TOP of the PRESENT gyroscope down to the bottom of the page. Draw a straight ‘fat line’ from the BOTTOM of the PAST gyroscope’ down to the bottom of the page. Draw another straight ‘fat line’ from the BOTTOM of the PRESENT gyroscope down to the bottom of the page.
If you have drawn close approximations you can see that as the gyroscope tilts downward from past to present the top of the flywheel move much further outward from the pedestal than dose the bottom of the flywheel. From this we see that if a non-spinning gyro were forced to accelerate sideways very, very fast it would resist sideways acceleration as well as vertical. But a precessing gyroscope does not tilt fast, but very slowly. Where acceleration and resistance comes from is in the great speed of flywheel rotation, which is a constant acceleration and resistance I have already explained. Reread and study the earlier sections here if you need to. Yes, I know they are hard. This is all a series of three dimensional mechanics visualized in the mind.
The top half of the gyroscope experiences resistance opposite to centrifuge, which nullifies the centrifugal effect in precession. It is as if, but not exactly as if, resistance pushes the gyroscope back into the pedestal equal to the amount of precession built centrifuge.
Also strange
As a gyroscope on a pedestal tilts from the horizontal 90o, down toward 135o, the conditions reverse and it is the bottom half of the gyroscope, which moves horizontally not outward, bur inward toward the pedestal. The bottom half resistance torques the gyro down on the pedestal, but does not hinder the centrifuge in precession and the gyro will seek to precess in a slightly greater radius. You can see this happening with a gyro on a string and in the professor’s Christmas lecture and you can understand from my explanation by drawing the action and applying the principles I have explained.
More later, Glenn
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Glenn Hawkins - 31/12/2008 20:19:30
| | | Precession is one of the most dynamically amassing puzzles of all. Most surprisingly perhaps, is that what determines the direction of precession is not gravity.
Imagine a photograph taken of a side-view of a gyroscope suspended on a pedestal. You see only the round shape of the flywheel facing you, but you know that behind the disk is its axial suspended on a pedestal and that before the stop frame action of the picture the gyroscope was tilting downward as it processed forward. In gravity applied conditions the front of the flywheel rotates upwards. We know the upward motion is the front, because that is the side of the rim the direction precession will always take. Gravity is not the cause. An applied force by any other means would cause the same effect.
Set a gyroscope upright on a soft rubber mat to grip the lower axial. You have virtually converted a gyroscope into a spinning top. Pinch very lightly the upper end of the axial and push it in any of the 360o directions. If the pinch is lightly enough held, the gyro will slide from your lose fingers at a right angle to the push. The right angle deflection will always be toward that potion of the outer rim where partials are rotating -opposite- to the direction of applied push. So you learn there are no special conditions between gravity and rotation to cause the direction precession takes. Any applied force by any means will cause the same right angle reaction, which we know as precession. All the ideas of gyroscopic propulsion then, including forced precession, balance point, flutter, inch worm and whatever work from this single principle of right angle deflection that we know as precession.
Next it’s time to prove there is no equal and opposite reaction to precession. That will be hard to explain though I have learned it well.
After that I intend to tackle the actual mechanics of precession. That is, how do mechanical actions cause a gyroscope to continually wrap itself around a pedestal without causing a reaction at the point of suspension above a pedestal, or below a string? The question to answer will be how is this accomplished.
Good New Years to you, Glenn
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PATRICK - 01/01/2009 09:27:57
| | | GLENN
Who knows really, only a few,the start is a begining but where did that begining start.
New beginings arrise!
arrisal is always a compromise in time.
TIME has less compromise
Yet any scripture or text can be laid down for time to pass untill a smallllll glitch pushed away but a small glitchhhh b ut 4 wh at 2 say 4 in any bo ut way
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Glenn Hawkins - 02/01/2009 03:30:38
| | | Hello Patrick,
I like it, but excuse me. What does this mean? ". . . untill a smallllll glitch pushed away but a small glitchhhh b ut 4 wh at 2 say 4 in any bo ut way."
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Glenn Hawkins - 02/01/2009 20:11:13
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The knobbed end of the axial of a gyroscope, when held by a long string travels in a small circle of its own, exactly equal and relative to the same degrees of the larger circles in which the flywheel travels-- always. Again: the knobbed end never moves in an opposite direction to the gyroscope, but rather forms in a smaller circling path that parallels and mocks the movements of the flywheel traveling in its much larger circle, which means the knob is traveling in the same direction as the flywheel, not in an opposite circular direction. The same parallels will happen if instead of a string you turn a little plastic pedestal upside down and stuff the hollow with crushed ice, then set the pedestal upright and press it down to flatten the ice against a hard smooth surface. When you sit a spinning gyroscope on this pedestal, the pedestal will move exactly as the string moved. In this way we can understand there is no rearward and opposite reaction. Now to the why is that?
Incidentally, forget Professor Laithwaite's flawed demonstration. His tower, the same as a pedestal, would have rotated in parallel sink with the gyroscope, but the tower had sharp legs that pressed into the soft and watery ice he provided. The demonstration didn’t prove anything and the tower wasn’t allowed to move in parallel sink , nevertheless his assertion that there was is no equal and opposite reaction at the tower/pedestal is correct.
Above we have proof that can be physically reexamined that there is no equal and opposite reaction at the knobbed end of the axial. The forthcoming explanation of why there isn’t any will be the same explanation as ‘why’ and ‘how’ a gyroscope is able to precess?
Stay tuned for the final conclusion.
Glenn,
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Glenn Hawkins - 03/01/2009 20:10:05
| | | It’s time to finish. Man I dread this. It is so simple to know and yet so difficult to explain and comprehend.
In a nutshell precession is like pinching a coin between thumb near the top and forefinger near the bottom and twisting it, but as it is twisted, also the twist the wrist. Then the coin is forced to rotate around its own center, while at the same time force to revolve around an outward circle. Except fingers and wrist have nothing to do with it. The gyro performs in its own self contained system of volution in sequences of actions and reactions. Don’t tell me you know what I mean. At this point I wouldn’t believe you.
I’m happy to give you everything for free, but you have to do some work too. Do some stick drawings. Draw a pedestal using two lines, which will be your fulcrum. Draw a straight line through the pedestal running from the top of the page to the bottom. Draw a rear view of a gyro. That is, draw a cross mark with one end line setting on the pedestal. Draw several of these gyros setting at various angles on this same pedestal. Viewing what you’ve drawn you should be able to see that at all times the tops of the gyroscopes move away from the straight line passing through the pedestal and conversely that the bottoms of the gyroscopes are always tilting inward toward the pedestal. We’ve gone through this before. The inertial resistance to till helps keep the top of the gyro from tilting away from the pedestal, while the inertial resistance in the bottom of the gyro helps keep the gyro from tilting down toward the pedestal. This holds the gyroscope up, but we’re about to learn it does more than that. Ok, you’re finished with that drawing. You can throw it away.
Now draw a circle which is the gyro’s flywheel. Related to the picture you just thrown away you know that behind the wheel, though you cannot see it, is the gyro’s axial and the pedestal on which the axel sets. The top part of this circle represents a gyroscope that is tilting toward you. Well above the top; draw an auto headlight to keep reminding you that the top of the flywheel is coming toward you. Well below the bottom of the flywheel; draw an auto taillight to keep reminding you that the bottom is tilting away from you.
All the way around the flywheel draw little curving arrows to show rotation and draw them so that the right side of the wheel is rotating upward. The right side then is the front side, because that is the direction precession will take.
Draw a big cross mark covering the entire circle. Your flywheel is now separated into four slices. Forces are going to act in different ways inside each separate slice. You know how the upper half works, however the upper front quarter works before the upper rear quarter works. Rotating particles enter the bottom of the upper front quarter and as they rotate to the top they are acted on by the force that would cause tilt. Two things happen. There will always be at least some tiny amount of tilt, so the partials that have reached the top will began their tilt resistance in a different rotational plane more toward you, than when they first begin to rise to the top. The other difference is that the partials while rotating up the front quarter would act as if they had gained some immeasurable momentum traveling toward you for that is the direction tilt forces them. So that now the partials that have come to the top and begin to descend down the rear upper quarter will carry at least the suggestion momentum coming toward you, therefore they will tend slightly to overcome a tiny amount of resistance. This makes rear upper quarter particle resistance weaker to tilting, than they were when the were rising in the top, front quarter and had not yet begun to be pushed toward you. The result of these two mechanical principles is that the top front quarter resistance would be more powerful and act some what as if it were pushing the front of the flywheel around the fulcrum.
(The drunk is told his bloodshot eyes look terrible to which he replies, “You should see them from my side.” You think this ‘understanding precession’ is hard? You should have seen it from my eyes while I was learning it.)
The bottom two quarters are paired to produce the same effects, but oppositely. The rear bottom quarter receiving the incoming particles in rotation first is stronger in resisting tilt into and toward the pedestal than the bottom front quarter for the same reasons explained above. This helps push the rear of the gyroscope around the pedestal. One last thing to remember is that tilting curves centrifuge. If the gyroscope is spinning powerfully it will hardly tilt and so the angle of the curve of centrifuge is very small so precession is very slow. When the gyro is spun down weakly it tilts fast and so the angle of deflected centrifuge is much larger and drives precession much faster.
You can do a great many three dimensional interacting pictures in colors to try to understand all this and they can all be so pretty and interesting. I have done all that. That was how I learned, but this two dimensional and limited way I’ve presented here is I believe far, far simpler to convey and comprehend.
I will leave all this for a while in the perchance someone needs to comment, or ask something. Then I intend to cut it, clean it up and repost it as one continious read.
Glenn,
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Albert Keel - 03/01/2009 23:51:00
| | | Hello!
Where can i buy or rent human gyroscopes? Please contact me: a.keel@gps.com
THANKS!
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George Haywood - 04/01/2009 21:39:02
| | | Thank you Glenn for your marathon attempt at answering my question. It was a little unfair to ask it however as, as far as can be ascertained, the question 'Why?' is unanswerable. (A little like demonstration 3 in Professor Laithwaite's Lecture concerning the lack of induced voltage when the portable coil is placed at right-angles to the other coil). There are many phenomena like this one, whose explanations rest upon the invocation of concepts like 'magnetic lines of force' etc., which everyone with a keen interest in science know to be useful and convenient concepts, but none the less, mathematical 'fictions'. Perhaps you would like to tackle an explanation for the lack of voltage across the coil placed in the manner shown in demonstration 3 to which I referred. I think this will make clear the gist of what I am attempting to portray.
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Glenn Hawkins - 05/01/2009 10:34:45
| | | George,
You are wrong. You don’t get to skim over my work, fail to understand the mechanics of it, and then say the mechanics were unanswered. You are wrong again. The answer was begun for any and all who could, or would understand long before you ever ask. If you had read to understand you’d have seen my article wasn‘t pacifically to you and SO you needn’t thank me and apologized to me.
You are wrong again. My explanation is complete and correct. It was delayed a dozen year because I knew you, by you I mean everybody, could not, or would not understand. Three dimensional thinking of changing motion is beyond almost everyone. Steven Hawking said he had trouble with it.
The lack of induced voltage when the portable coil is placed at right-angles to the other coil has I think absolutely nothing what so ever to do with the causes of precession. That guy never understood precession. He knew precisely how a gyroscope behaves, but not why it behaves. He never clamed he did, as I do, but yes, I liked him too.
You are wrong for ignoring the statements I made below, yet making a judgement anyway.
“We have to be able to set-up thought experiments and apply imagination in order to convey and understand.”
“If you can keep working with these ideas, until the action is etched well in your mind, then you can understand how tilting a spinning wheel effects centrifuge and causes the force and pressure of centrifuge to be deflected at a direction away from the plain of rotation.”
“I recommend that you keep rereading these examples every day and trying to apply you own examples then taking a break for a week then back again for more daily review for as long as it takes, until it all becomes clear and simple and about as easy as walking and as certain and sure. It is worth it? It depends on you. Some of us have a life long desire to understand our apparatus’ well enough to know without question, if they will work and know with certainty in the why and how of it all.”
“Above we have proof that can be physically reexamined that there is no equal and opposite reaction at the knobbed end of the axial.”
“It’s time to finish. Man I dread this. It is so simple to know and yet so difficult to explain and comprehend.”
“You can do a great many three dimensional interacting pictures in colors to try to understand . . . but the limited way I’ve presented here is I believe far, far simpler to convey and comprehend.”
“(The drunk is told his bloodshot eyes look terrible to which he replies, “You should see them from my side.” You think this ‘understanding precession’ is hard? You should have seen it from my eyes while I was learning it.)”
“I will leave all this for a while in the perchance someone needs to comment, or ask something.”
Do you understand now that you are not component to critique my mechanics? But of course you made no attempt at detail did you? Do you have an inkling now of why perhaps no one ever understood before and certainly why no one ever before tried to explain? Basically I just want to finish a life’s work, post it here and forget about it. I’ll clean it up later. My hope is that someone special passing by will receive the gift of understanding that which I had struggled to formulate for half a life time.
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George Haywood - 05/01/2009 10:59:09
| | | Glenn, I would be delighted if, in the fullness of time, your findings prove to be coreect.
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Glenn Hawkins - 05/01/2009 17:04:56
| | | Dear George Haywood,
You seem to be an intelligent man and you gave me the benefit of your mind and I did not show you respect. I am very sorry, George. Please excuse me.
These are quotes from the article I just finished:
“If you can keep working with these ideas, until the action is etched well in your mind, then you can understand how tilting a spinning wheel effects centrifuge and causes the force and pressure of centrifuge to be deflected at a direction away from the plane of rotation.”
“You can understand if you wish, though this is hard stuff and I have had to invest a great deal of time to learn the mechanical ways of understanding from scratch. . . . Understanding requires three dimensional visualization. . . I recommend that you keep rereading these examples everyday and trying to apply you own examples then taking a break for a week then back again for more daily review for as long as it takes, until it all becomes clear and simple and about as easy as walking and as certain and sure.”
“When you tilt a gyroscope you bend the direction of centrifuge. During tilting some areas of the wheel are tilted further than other areas and so more force is applied gradually further out from the hinging point. Also there is a ratio between tilting force and centrifuge force. Whichever is stronger controls the angle and line of deflection.”
You see, if you truly wanted to know and were willing to work for it, the method of how to go about understanding is explained above. You would have to train your mind to visualize the quadruple, three dimensional bending if centrifuge. Then you could imagine how a gyroscope would wrap itself upward and also around a fulcrum. It is all about ’how’ to understand why and how a lecture gyroscope reacts at a right angle and why and how an overhung gyroscope holds itself up, while at the same time pulling and pushing itself inward and around a fulcrum.
You mentioned, “. . .if your findings prove to be correct.’ George, I don’t know how to prove logic. Logic proves itself. After a thing has been carefully examined, it should become self evidently correct, or self evidently incorrect, or not understood. For me, sometimes logic is not theory. Sometimes logic based on enough observation and knowledge can be so thoroughly logically it becomes proof. I have offered that kind of proof already whenever, by whomever wishes to apply the time and energy necessary to learn how to understand.
Please be nice to yourself and don’t worry with this stuff any more. You are more interested in other clever things.
Respectfully, Courteously Yours,
Glenn Hawkins
Now I've got to try to finish these two movie scripts before I fall over and vanish.
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Glenn Hawkins - 14/01/2009 20:38:52
| | | I have it all now. The difference between how and why a gimbals and an overhung gyroscope function.
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Glenn Hawkins - 11/02/2009 11:20:44
| | | It is so simple. Four positions of reactions cause precession. The simplicity came to me. In one respect it is oh so simple, in another the full completeness is very complicated as this long post merely suggest. I wouldn’t attempt to explain even the simple that came to me, without providing pictures. If it helps I can tell you there is downward reaction force on the pedestal, but the pedestal pushes equally back. There is also and oboist reaction at the pivot point to precession, but this causes no opposite movement in response to the reaction force, because it is countered by the movement of precession itself. Reaction is not allowed to act. Yes I know. It is not possible to understand this without pictures, nevertheless it is true. For short however, you may entertain and use this unexplained statement: Assume there is no equal and opposite reaction to precession as has been suspected. Therefore there is no discernible reason why the idea, ‘mass movement’ would not apply, therefore there is no discernible reason why the idea, ‘inchworm’ could not be manipulated in such ways as to provide powerful inertial thrust. These ideas are the ways to the stars. It is a great shame that engineers at NASA do not know this.
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Glenn Hawkins - 11/02/2009 15:11:15
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It is so simple. Four positions of reactions cause precession. The simplicity came. In one respect it is oh so simple, in another the full completeness is very complicated as this long post suggest. I wouldn’t attempt to explain this today, even the simple that came to me, without providing pictures. If it helps I can tell you there is downward reaction force on the pedestal, but the pedestal pushes equally back. There is also an opposite reaction at the pivot point to overhung precession, but this causes no opposite movement in response to the reaction force, because it is countered by the movement of precession itself. Reaction is not allowed to act. Yes I know. It is not possible to understand this without pictures, nevertheless it is true. For short however, you may entertain and use this unexplained statement: Assume there is no equal and opposite reaction to precession as has been suspected. Therefore there is no discernible reason why the idea, ‘mass movement’ would not apply, therefore there is no discernible reason why the idea, ‘inchworm’ could not be manipulated in such ways as to provide a nuclear powered inertial thrust constantly and powerfully in space. These ideas are the ways to the stars.
It is a great shame that engineers at NASA do not know this. It is a greater shame that even if I could and did explain it all adequately well, our engineers, leading the world’s most accomplished and perfectly placed at NASA would not believe in the possibility of it enough to build a small device and test it.
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Malcolm - 20/02/2009 15:35:11
| | | I think this will help.
http://www.gyroscopes.org/forum/questions.asp?id=1011
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glenn hawkins - 20/02/2009 20:00:50
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Dear Malcolm,
Help what? But thank you for your suggestion. At a glimpse at your first and second paragraphs I think you understand the first combination of deflections, and the tremendous momentum. Beyond that these explanations without pictures are tiring and boring and always, if we get them right, too difficult. If you poured over my partial explanations with the intensity and comprehension necessary to understand them I am amassed. Your efforts may be no worse than mine, but this is not our fault. It is the nature of the subject. It can’t be explained even the simplicity, much less the complications, without pictures. For either of us to explain ourselves, I subject we do a lot of drawings then a lot of people might be willing to perceive the explanations. You may know I am correct by the number of answers you receive to your post. I myself am tired of it. After all this time of study I understand the simple, but I also understand it in extraordinarily complicated and complete ways. There’s a lot, more than would be guessed. But I don’t much care any more. My success into the subject is worthless. I guess I’m not in the greatest mood right now. Maybe latter I might give your writing more attention. I can appreciate your hard work.
Best Regards,
Glenn
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patrick - 01/03/2009 05:51:13
| | | THERE is enough 2 c so ok ok ok glenn i submit 2 your nazzi way of ownership of all u purvey,but its been put 2 the wall,. ouch or outst, up 2 u but an inclustion of me registering in an unselfish manner 4 all 2 c is jackpot u know wer2find mebutnecnecnecblud
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oooops - 01/03/2009 06:02:50
| | | yes u must show this 2 b correct,so forget 5 an 6 law ballony and state in an absolute reply 2 me why my insertians are not going 2 work without going around what is placed and i mean directed answers toward me 4 all to evaluate as directed reply 2 me......................ans d quest nec nec nec
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patrick - 14/03/2009 04:13:22
| | | It is not over 4 parts or precesions,one must forget 360 degrees and work in rotations of each that finish in different compasses.I have caused much wrongfull doubt an given every reason for questionability.Simplicity is there in every naturallity in life.4 me an ammassed complexityof which i wish i could type 300,009 thou words but i cannot or suppose i could but would give envelopment of precured and unstated fact via reply in writing just how the developing can read txt messaging very wrong or at least be unearved by a txt from there very dearest as the receiver is reading in or as the third passed word.THIS has been known 4 time. MY postal is 4 all 2 c, N also my ear
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