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23 November 2024 17:47
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Welcome to the gyroscope forum. If you have a question about gyroscopes in general,
want to know how they work, or what they can be used for then you can leave your question here for others to answer.
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Question |
| Asked by: |
Glenn Hawkins |
| Subject: |
NOT POSSIBLE |
| Question: |
ROTATING, ROTATING DISK.
How simple can it be? Twenty-five years ago this is the first experience I had, three days after the behavior of a gyroscope first stirred my imagination. Three days later I set this experiment up in about an hour.
a) Place the knobs of the axels of two gyros opposite one another, sideways into a stick. Tie several thick rubber bands to the two ends of the stick. Connect the rubber bands to the top of your son’s Tonka toy truck. Wind up the stick and tie it off. Make the gyros rotate in opposite directions. Cut the string freeing the stick to twist.
b) Try the same thing, but fixed so the knobs inserted in the sticks are free and oiled to allow them to pivot.
c) Turn the whole mess upside down, place in on a pendulum scale of your own making and try the two above experiments.
Finished!
The conclusion you prove to yourself, should last you the rest of your life. It is this:
d) Rotating disks, that are themselves rotated produce only torque regardless of whether the arrangement is horizontal, or vertical. Such cannot produce one directional linear thrust.
I have hesitated too long to avoid hurting feelings. I am sorry.
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There is another process of putting spinning wheels through a series of repeating, complicated manipulations that I think has a real chance of producing inertial thrust.
There is also a simple, short and complete explanation of why and how a gyro does what it dose.
It doesn’t appear any of you will learn this “series of repeating, complicated manipulations” let alone, build the thing. I hope you do.
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| Date: |
1 May 2009
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Answers (Ordered by Date)
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| Answer: |
Sandy Kidd - 01/05/2009 23:24:19
| | | Dear Glenn,
You posted:
“d) Rotating disks, that are themselves rotated produce only torque regardless of whether the arrangement is horizontal, or vertical. Such cannot produce one directional linear thrust.”
Good one Glenn and a most important observation.
I would not have generalised just so much maybe, as you have omitted the quite extensive grey area which precedes this effect otherwise I am in total agreement.
The area your experiment is operating is what I have often called the saturation zone where if you check I have repeatedly stated that there is nothing there but rotation itself. No centrifugal force and no angular momentum.
This is exactly what I have been going on about for many, many years, but I went as far as suggesting the reasons for this effect
I also stated that once in this zone (saturation zone) there is nothing left to utilise for the purposes of producing Inertial thrust, but I did on many occasions describe in detail what happens to a spinning disc which is itself subjected to spin.
I will close this posting by stating again that in a system such as you have described that if the system speed is constant the angular momentum generated in such a system is proportional to the rotation speed of the disc, i.e. from maximum angular momentum at minimum disc rotation speed to no angular momentum at whatever speed the disc must rotate to create this effect (that is why I called it the “saturation zone”)
I think this was called Kidd’s Law at the time. A bit pretentious perhaps.
Any increase in disc speed after that does nothing, as there is if you think about it no mass left to accelerate.
I am not sitting here recalling everything I have stated but if your memory serves you well the whole thing boiled down to the transfer of the disc mass to the rotation axis of the device.
Understanding this is the first step to producing inertial thrust, and none of this good stuff is in books.
I thought I was finished regurgitating all this stuff.
I’m off to paint a model aircraft, which is now a bit more satisfying than repeating all this spinning stuff.
Best regards
Sandy.
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 02/05/2009 12:57:42
| | | What a nice guy. Who want’s to go against these highly intelligent arguments? So I won’t. I’ll just say none of my experiences with rotating disk produced any thrust that I could find. I am with you one hundred percent -- in that any activity is more rewarding -- than the acclaimed success' and rewards I never got from so many hours and so much hard work I did with spinning things. I’m guessing you are using bright pastel colors, it being spring and cheerful and all. It seems like you would often have good winds coming off the sea, while you fly your planes. It is that way north of here at, Kitty Hawk where the Wight brothers flew the first airplane. I watched gliders being towed aloft in the mountains about two, or three weeks ago. From conversations with the pilots I learned that most of them are commercial pilots. Some are retired and some are still actively flying Boing and so on. They like flying they say, because it gets in their blood and gliding compared to powered aircraft is the real stuff, as sailing to a yachtsman is preferred to powered boats. They can stay up all day if the thermal drafts are good. Have fun Sandy. I can imagine being there with you on a green field flying if I had something to fly.
Sincerely,
Glenn
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