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23 November 2024 15:18
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Question |
| Asked by: |
Nitro |
| Subject: |
a video of a machine |
| Question: |
After mis-posting this several times I hopfully have found the right place on the propulsion page!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfyJbAP1cR0&context=C35a930cADOEgsToPDskLVlol4QIySgo4bYw7skwi9
This link shows an early prototype step on the path to developing a machine to push in space (or anywhere else) without the need to push against something or to chuck things away - like hot rocket exhaust. In theory it could run on (comparatively) never ending photovoltaic electricity. It seriously questions Newton’s third law of motion and idea of the conservation of linear motion. As you will see, it shoves a weight in one direction in complete disregard of the predictions of the third law. Just to be really naughty it also messes up the law of conservation of linear momentum.
The mechanism (the whole machine) that does the shoving does not react and move in the opposite direction as predicted by the third law but instead, after some perturbation, moves in the same direction that it shoves the weight. Eric Laithwaite was so close, bless him for his efforts to open minds but, as I did in the beginning, I think he forgot that gyros act as if they have no mass in precession and so a separate, independent, mass has to be incorporated in the mechanism, and must be moved, for it to work. This is the latest and perhaps strangest Jogglevision video so far. It is from an eleven year old 8 mm video I just found that I thought I had lost forever.
Mad or genius? Don’t worry if you don’t understand this.
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| Date: |
3 March 2012
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Answers (Ordered by Date)
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 03/03/2012 17:28:42
| | | At face value the demonstration would show mass movement without an opposite thrust. There is no denying movement, but the show it isn't enough. More than a slow jerk of an inch is needed.
Constant jerks and constant increasing distance and more importantly constant acceleration would be remarkably compelling-- if taped in controlled and proper testing methods. This machine and demo, like all before it, is not compelling enough for anyone to want to test it further.
Build something impressive enough, including tests and the world will flock to your. You will not be ignored, but sought out big-time for more controlled, eye witnessed, laboratory like testing.
Remember, if a machine defies all the excepted science of four hundred years, you would be DEMANDED to provide the most demanding proof possible.
When you used to talk about your 'fast repeater' I thought you were absolutely on the right trick. Fast, repeating, jerking and continuous acceleration could describe my own work.
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Nitro - 04/03/2012 14:05:30
| | | Oh! Yes! As well as moving the action and reaction in the same direction and messing up the law of conservation of linear momentum, it also converts torsional force into linear force.
I would have though that was enough diclosure to keep anyone happy for now. Except possibly Glen and that Maths professor from Sussex Uni.
NM
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Momentus - 07/03/2012 11:07:29
| | | Would this be Nitro McMad? Nice to see your work “in the flesh” as it were.
I seem to recall that you have had a ‘one shot’ device for some time. It is not too clear that the device videoed can build acceleration without coming to a dead stop after each iteration. Although Constant Velocity devices do blow large holes in the current paradigm, they are not suited for propulsion, in space or elsewhere. Useful for manoeuvring around the rocket though.
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Nitro - 07/03/2012 14:08:56
| | | Very perceptive on the machine’s movement, Momentus. However, it is not nice to see my “work” as this one is a later nasty piece of bodgery rushed out to prove a thought that means to carry a weight might prove useful. The later “multishot” now sadly lost, though a video may exist in the detritus of the past somewhere, seemed too limited in usefulness by the very motion you describe. My innovative activities then had to be directed elsewhere, successfully I’m pleased to say, as the family insisted on being fed. I’m not so sure, now, that the lack of smooth continuing motion to be passed on couldn't be overcome – or indeed needs to be. Having overcome one of the fundamentals of the third law by using several axis of rotation, converted torsional motion into linear, getting round the laws of conservation of momentum, I’m sure that, with a small amount of application of the little grey cells, that the small problem of finding the equivalent of a flywheel could be overcome too. The success of the internal combustion engine, after all is down to its being provided with a flywheel (a bloody great big one in the case of early machines) that is not so massive as to be impossible for the machine to accelerate it fast enough for it’s accelerated inertia to overcome the compression stroke and not so small as to, despite its accelerated inertia, be unable to overcome the compression stroke. Hard to realise with our wonderful engines now that these where real problems then. Like I said even Daimler started somewhere – though with very slightly better engineering skills and a tad more patience, methinks.
I think that I have contributed enough to show there is a new path, which others must now tread. Though, I suppose, anyone might have observed the path upon watching a gyro pendulum swing in a curve. All they need do is ask themselves, as I did, where is the opposing force to the one making the pendulum path curve – they can worry about where the force comes from to make the path curve, later.
Kind regards
Nitro
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 07/03/2012 15:39:38
| | | ‘Good to see you war horses back.
With Nitroglycerin Harry K. could create a Momentous explosion under Ravi’s gyros, using Patrick as a delivery fuse, while Kidd, Luis and I watched in panic, but I don’t know how you could roast weenies that way. You could lose a hand or arm. Wait and see if Pat survives.
fun.
PROPULSION
Nitro’s demonstration apparatus seems very much to work. I think it dose.
Momentus’ points are exactly correct.
If this little apparatus were reloaded from internal force, such as with a motor, hydraulics and a timing chip, what would happen? The apparatus’ cradle would advance further in the same direction during the reloading from moving the weight and gyros back to where they were. (equal and opposite reaction during loading) The right angle force the gyros would exert during repositioning would be directed vertically.
So if you had that apparatus, and an additional one strapped upside-down to counter all gyro vertical forces, you would have something similar to my ten year old “Inch Worm”. Nitro’s apparatus very well might move to distances in space, but I too predict as I understood Momentus, it would never accelerate, but move forward stop and go, stop and go.
I just saw the latest post. Neither of you need my explanation.
I NOW SEE BOTH OF YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOUR ARE DOING. I AM IMPRESSED AND PLEASE. PARDON ME, I AM ALSO SURPRISED. THERE IS A LOT OF INVOLVED AND UNIQUE KNOWLEDGE IN WHAT WAS EXPRESSED AND ALSO WHAT WAS UNEXPRESSED BEHIND THOSE FEW SENTENCES. THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING SO MUCH.
Glenn,
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Sandy Kidd - 08/03/2012 19:34:57
| | | Ravi and other interested parties
So much for coloured fish!
Regards,
Sandy
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Glenn Hawkins - 09/03/2012 16:05:10
| | | Hello my friend, I am glad to see you posting. I always enjoy your colorful, insightful, intelligent way of writing. Your latest in a little off the wall. I enjoyed it though and I will have some fun with it.
Ravi doesn’t know what ‘colored fish’ means. How could he. The meaning is secretly captured entirely in the mind of the phrase maker.
Alice met Humpty Dumpty on his wall, and he was talking nonsense, or what seemed to her to be nonsense or at best, unintelligible. He used words that had entirely different meanings to Alice.
‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.’
‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master – that's all.’
…………………………………………………………………..
Confused?
Teasing, but very respectfully yours, Sandy,
Glenn
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Ravi - 10/03/2012 01:06:59
| | | Colored fish...??
:D
Greetings Sandy and all!
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Harry K. - 11/03/2012 10:06:39
| | | Hello Glenn,
I like you too! :-) -Unfortunately I have less time for contributing, but I hope to have more time in the next months.
However, I'm still reading your and others (also Ravi's) interesting posts.
Best regards @ all!
Harry
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Glenn Hawkins - 11/03/2012 21:24:06
| | | Harrieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! It is good you hear from you again. We will be here when you have more time to waste on us. I'm looking forward to it. Well, being busy is very good. Congratulations. I generate my own work and time and I have laid around all winter procrastinating. I am ashamed and I have ten more pounds added I don't need. I try to stay trim and fit, but I have this new girl friend and. . . Oh forget it. I'm sorry I mentioned my personal misadventures. I'm going to get busy right now just like you.
My Highest Regards To You,
Glenn
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Luis Gonzalez - 12/03/2012 01:42:17
| | | It's good to hear from you again Nitro,
Thank you for the vintage video.
The instantaneous reaction is actually equal and opposite but there is no denying something causes the device to end up in the direction of the deadweight mass.
It's hard to say what causes the final effect.
Sandy and Ravi, The Clupeidae covered with 1940's lipstick lives on.
Glenn, Thank you for the witty comments.
Regards,
Luis G
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