Home : Gallery : History : Uses : Behaviour : Maths : Forum : Propulsion : Links : Glossary
Main Forum Page

The Gyroscope Forum

19 August 2019 09:38

Welcome to the gyroscope forum. If you have a question about gyroscopes in general, want to know how they work, or what they can be used for then you can leave your question here for others to answer. You may also be able to help others by answering some of the questions on the site.

Search the forum:  


Asked by: Glenn Hawkins
Subject: Where does precession come from?
Question: The last reaction from the series of reactions that cause precession occurs in the bottom of the wheel, with most of the precess force located between 140o and 220o.

The release of precession is from three separate, connected reaction in the third dimension. Steven Hawking suggested that on a few occasions he may have been able to think of three actions at once for a fleeting time. He guessed Einstein may also been able to do it too. I have seen it. I have told you an angel gave it to me. I am not crazy. The academic world makes three mistakes. We here make the same number, but differently. Some day I may try explaining why and how. If and until then, no one can believe, until they understand why and how. For now, the best you could do is wonder if I am right, for no one has gotten it in three hundred years.

A note on a different thing: Deflections do not push, they yield grudgingly instant to instant, never multiplying to increase force, and folding up like an accordion when each graduation of tilt is finished.

Date: 1 June 2012
report abuse

Answers (Ordered by Date)

Answer: Sandy Kidd - 02/06/2012 21:21:56
 Hello Glenn,
You said:
“Where does precession come from?
The last reaction from the series of actions which cause precession occurs in the bottom of the wheel, with most of the precess force located between 140 degrees and 220 degrees”.

This I agree with, but the rest of your posting I have trouble understanding.
However in fairness Hawking the mathematician stated that everything about physics is known and it is now only a tidy up exercise for the physicists.
So he knows.
Incidentally this statement was very near the end of a book about “Time, the Big Bang etc. etc”.
This was in a book I purchased in Stapleton Airport, Denver in 1986 to pass the time whilst waiting on a flight.
If the statement had been in the preface I could have saved myself $28.

However back to the forum, I believe you are describing the last part of the precession loop which occurs in gravity driven systems.

Whilst gravity plays a very insignificant part in the operation of mechanically accelerated system and consequently there is no sequence of actions present in such systems all of the gyroscopic or flywheel reaction occurs in the same geometric area as that in gravity driven systems, with the maximum reaction occurring at bottom dead centre.
I was told, taught if you like, that a gyroscope or flywheel attempts to rotate around its centre of mass, and that the operating mechanism is called the gyroscopic couple.
Eric Laithwaite also confirmed to me the presence of this couple.
However I am still waiting to be enlightened as to the nature or creation of this couple.
From where I am standing (actually sitting) this is an impossibility.
There is nothing there to create a couple.
There is a large differential generated vertically across the face of the disc, this obviously being proportional to the rotation speed of the disc, and being more than sufficient to balance out all angular momentum and centrifugal force, previously developed in this accelerated system.
Call this precession if you like, but I still like to think that precession is the convoluted action which is responsible for precession in decaying systems i.e. gravity driven systems, and not the action which causes inwards and upwards acceleration of the disc in mechanically overpowered accelerated systems.
This occurs at the critical point when the system can accept no more system rotation speed and/or disc rotation speed.

Let me close by stating that the disc therefore in spite of many statements to the contrary on this forum, cannot and does not attempt to rotate around its centre of mass.
Best regards,

Report Abuse
Answer: Glenn Hawkins - 03/06/2012 02:13:38
 Bless you Sandy. You are correct. I have not explained. It is difficult for me. But I will try someday.

Right now I am elated with Blaze. I used to be that way. I would finish a project every time even if somebody had been beating me in the head with a sick while I worked. I was a contractor. Now I am an old man.

Personally, I liked Hawking' video of 'A Brief History of Time' even more that the book. It is wonderful. I have his latest book? 'The Universe in A Nut Shell' my son bought for me. I don't care for it.

I hope you are enjoying beautiful weather assuming it is that way in Scotland now. :-)

Your pal,

Report Abuse
Answer: Glenn Hawkins - 04/06/2012 02:10:45

Report Abuse
Answer: Glenn Hawkins - 08/06/2012 17:11:38
 I saw one of our jolly swagmen on the sidewalk, I won't say who, as I was going into the Outback for a short beer and a blooming onion. When I came back out I got him over to the grass. I was tired of seeing people step on his tong. Two bums tried to roll him, but when they looked in his tucker-bag they found only gyroscopes. One threw it down saying, “Another one of them crazy ^%$*”. I defended he and our clan, saying I am that way too, but the bums gave him a kick and walked away in disgust.

Beautiful, beautiful song conducted by our own lustrous Harry K. on the violin?


Report Abuse
Answer: Sandy Kidd - 08/06/2012 23:00:33
 Hello Glenn.
The weather here has been rubbish as usual.
You brought some good memories back to me with the mention of the “Outback”
Went to the “Outback” in St Petersburg, Florida many years ago prior to visiting “Joyland” Bradenton Florida, the local gathering place for county music buffs, and exponents of “shit- kickin” dancing.
We got a great steak there and we sampled the “Blooming Onion” which you mentioned and we all thought it was great.
Wild sort of place was Joyland
A right bunch of posers but a lot of them were damn good dancers.
A lot of his and hers type dressing up.
I remember that particular night seeing Billy Ray Cyrus performing there a bit before he got famous with his rendition of “Achy Breaky Heart”.
I thought Joyland had gone but I have just watched the place again on YouTube.
That brought some more good memories back.
Will have to try the “Outback” again sometime
Trouble is I have 6 great granddaughters who all want to go to Disneyworld.
By the way I never saw anybody with gyros there, but I saw plenty in Rhodes though.
Good on the fiddle that fellow in Oz by the way.

Report Abuse
Answer: Glenn Hawkins - 09/06/2012 09:31:39
 Hello Sandy.
The weather here is hot in the day and too cool in the night.

I know the St. Pete area. They have 'Skyway Pier' the longest fishing pier in the world and it is quite incredible. You drive out for miles and miles into the ocean, stopping to fish wherever you please. Incidentally they have or had the largest drug store in the world, but I don't see what good that is. I looked on YouTube at 'Joyland' Wow! I didn't know about it. That whole area from St. Pete up through the little beach towns from Indian Beach to Clearwarter Beach was one of my two favorite places to vacation. I can close my eyes and see the little piano bars beside the sandy sidewalks and lighted palm trees in the late evening. You brought back memories too.

Some other places with great music: Beal Street in Memphis, Parsley’s home town, but watch out for the street criminals. New Orleans’s French Quoter, but I don't know after the levies broke and the city was flooded. Watch out for the street criminals. It's like Holland, a bole below water level. Nashville Tennessee is safe and about two hours West of me. It is the country musical capital of the world.

I think you have traveled much more than I. I once bought about four gallons of 'Black And White' Scotch for $4.50 a gallon at the international airport in Scotland. That was in the sixties and it was duty free. Our moonshine, that is illegal white whiskey made secretly in the mountains, now cost $100.00 a gallon, though there is no tax. Prices go up.

If you are wondering, I am not an alcoholic. I talk the talk, but I don't walk the walk. One or two evenings a week I may have a short glass of 'Canadian Club'. If I get the great old house downtown I am bidding on, you must bring your family for a week or two. Chattanooga is called the scenic city of the South and is currently rated as the second best place in the US to live. It is fun, restored and with lots and lots of interesting things. You'd have a place to stay with a big, well stocked kitchen and so on. Nothing would cost you a dime. We can set on the veranda in the evening with a cigar and a glass of brandy and talk about what my wife called, “His whirly-burgs”. We will talk again.


Report Abuse
Answer: Glenn Hawkins - 25/06/2012 00:50:11
 Where does precession come from?

My theory is: It begins in the rear of the direction the wheel is forced to curve into, but it ends with force of motion into precession in the front of the wheel, designated by the direction the wheel is being forced to curve into. Wherever rotation is pointing in that forward curving potion of the wheel, will be the direction and force generated into precession.

In the most common form of forced precession the front of wheel, which is that potion being forced into a horizontal curve around a powered hub, is the forward potion. The rotating front dictates that precession will rise upwards, unless the wheel is being rotated backwards to hub forced direction, in which case precession would be downward.

In gravity powered precession the front of the movement of the wheel is curving (tilting) downward and the direction of the wheel’s rotation at the forward area (downward) powers precession it that bottom rotating direction, which is horizontal as rotating arrows on the bottom of the rotating wheel would point and point toward.

Precession in gimbals rings is the same, except that the center point of precession is the center of gravity.

These things all happen, because of mechanical actions, but the way they happen is a continuous chain of reactions of many flowing events that, unsurprisingly to anybody, comes from past time and space, to present time and space, toward future time and place. During these changing times and places there are endless strings of angles of force.

I apologize that I cannot explain how this happens. I understand it. I have seen it in my mind’s eye, but I think what I am saying is gibberish to you. It sounds like that to me too.

My favorite teacher taught me long ago, "If you can't explain it you don't know it."
If he were alive I would now say to him, "I beg to differ, sir. You have never seen the reasons for precession in your mind.”

Again, I am sorry and I feel a bit silly, but you may at least believe that one fellow believes precession is generated at the end of much more complications conditions than assumable, and ends like pointing rotating arrows in the direction of rotation at the tip of the wheel determined by the direction it is forced to curve into,

Take it easy : - }

Report Abuse
Add an Answer >>
Website. Copyright © 2019 Glenn Turner. All rights reserved. site info
Do not copy without prior permission. Click here for gyroscope products