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Question

Asked by: MD
Subject: Pendulum experiment!
Question: Hello all. Got some news to share and thought I'd start a new subject because the other thread seems to be running long now.

I'm very tired right now, as I seem to have mixed up my sleeping schedule (again). But what I can say right now is that I suspended the M Drive from the roof in 5 meter long nylon threads and started the machine.

I tried 2 things. Just "running" it like I did in the other videos, constantly doing "cycles" one after another in quick succession. The results from those tests are still out, I need to check the video if the laser dot on the ground actually stayed more to one side or the other.

However! The second thing I tried was successful. That thing was to try and only do "cycles" as the machine was moving (swinging) forward. After a while the swing would get long enough for me to fit 2 or even 3 cycles before the machine started to swing back again (during which I never did a cycle). This caused it to get a fairly large swing, which I'm at least hoping should be impossible.

That's all for now. More info tomorrow.
Date: 7 April 2014
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Answers (Ordered by Date)


Answer: Glenn Hawkins - 07/04/2014 15:25:51
 I am sorry you are tiring yourself out. What you describe is something near what I once called, 'time delay'. I won't attempt to describe it. I have learned my lesson here, but apparently you have found it and are studying it. Good.
The little-island fellow found it and actually succeeded in using it.

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Answer: MD - 08/04/2014 02:43:38
 (Copied my message from another forum, so apologies if I mention some things twice.)

"*Yawn* Finally awake again.

So as you've already guessed, I got the machine swinging. What I don't know is if the motion the machine does is actually useful towards a swing or if the increased swing speed (momentum I guess) is due to what I'm trying to achieve, gyroscopic propulsion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3BaN2tWAPg

A "cycle" in my machine is really just that. Gyros in starting position > start rotating scaffold and precess them forward > stop/slow rotation and have them move back to their original position.

I did two things. Doing cycles continuously as I did previously, one after another in quick succession. I haven't analyzed the video to draw any conclusions yet. Still don't know what software to even use (need something that counts frames and lets me skip forward frame by frame).

However, the other thing I did was simply to start doing cycles to get it to swing gently, then only do cycles as the machine was swinging forward. This caused the swing to get bigger pretty fast, and eventually swing as much as ~1.5 meters from maximum back to maximum forward position, if not even more. At this point I could fit 2-3 cycles during the forward swing (while just letting it rest during the backward swing).

It seems like the motion you need to do to increase swing speed as a human is pretty complex, even if every kid knows how. At the bottom of the pendulum motion, the legs (center of gravity?) needs to be the furthest from the pivot. Not to mention the pendulum experiment I did had 4 ropes, instead of a swings' 2. But, if you say this is all irrelevant and that a shifting center of gravity will cause it to swing, then I'll accept that. I suppose I should do a "control experiment" with the gyroscopes off too."

So, people of gyroscopes.org. Is getting it to swing actually noteworthy?

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Answer: MD - 08/04/2014 06:45:41
 Just because, here's the videos I recorded yesterday. Might be of interest to some.


]https://mega.co.nz#!hUAUCZTT!eReEZf5hYHyRoow0Fw4wMkTjzule6mXflUPQjhy6DwU

https://mega.co.nz/#!NZYHSRSK!IO9I_4r9svlZpjIKHAJbfdLdTTLbIcFsoJDDxwwm504

https://mega.co.nz/#!Ac41VQia!EA2LUUhzNJ9dC_K4lpxFVRtp9ChINJkNeQmz_eE6nuI


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Answer: Glenn Hawkins - 08/04/2014 14:19:57
 It is a bad precedent to begin using these sign in and eventual pay to see sites when others are free.

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Answer: MD - 08/04/2014 14:52:36
 "MEGA" is completely free.

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Answer: MD - 10/04/2014 15:35:24
 Proof?!

I'm back from performing new experiments. I'm hungry as hell, so I'll make it short. I was able to accelerate the machine in one direction only, the direction of travel (forward), which is the direction it is designed to go. This means it was easy to get it into a swinging motion, as long as you kept doing cycles as it swung forward.

This is the interesting part though. If I did cycles as it swung backwards the swinging would [B]stop[/B], decelerate. I don't think even a kid on a swing could do that.

I did several attempts at passing the pendulum experiment, but it was hard to notice with your naked eye if the dot stayed more on one side than the other.

I recorded everything, and here it is:

https://mega.co.nz/#!MQIhwbCJ!l_4nMFWCw-HHnLOF7SCqI9MWuFIIDqE3qRyPMWWIve8
https://mega.co.nz/#!cAYgXb5J!T_Q4cberuHMGOoN2-O2k8P0jf1bPZ-QaAM9uKXlLG9g
https://mega.co.nz/#!lcIDVShZ!_hNiVzMxwZHmOdXx6uTYSyL5kLd-aFqhrWbD4m7PEEI
https://mega.co.nz/#!JUJE1Y5Q!sw2z0oPuSluyh9h1vsDu0tmACkfy5ZQmKY1gt6IfPPs
https://mega.co.nz/#!QN5wRZxI!VKgp6kcluSbFD7tekyBuWFNFplyOEHanhqvLrI_h2W4
https://mega.co.nz/#!cQQTwZob!x6V4LIisdZqTIsX3_XteGfmEpawlLyf_ZE7QHiPXLQ0
https://mega.co.nz/#!4JZEgJLZ!iABc7watO2BWIYc2SDPM7dgVLgQnPPsbR2tZZOrSrQ8
https://mega.co.nz/#!lZpGnSgD!AJeYBnxdkmo7-aqIJL5rmiZGKP_7CFvZru0l2RaNNdI
https://mega.co.nz/#!gV5FBCJT!S0xAC9A_3Ww2pFGQ8gG0pxP80OO5hIpltclIuZL8XBA
https://mega.co.nz/#!8MgmARyT!zvhwcWf-rJrghQcIwPhWBim2brpSBzbE5lfqqmJHV1Q

(The missing videos are errors in recording, they were only a few seconds long.)

Gentlemen, within these videos may very well lie the proof of a functioning reactionless drive.

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Answer: MD - 11/04/2014 09:11:10
 Well, some initial results are in, and... the laser dot spends more time on one side than the other in some of the experiments! :)

They're being discussed here if you're interested:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/72265-Could-a-Gyroscopic-inertial-thruster-ever-work/page7

Some people are skeptical though (surprice surprice). One person ("K^2") thinks it's simply swinging, like a human would on a swing, and that can also account for the deceleration the machine does when you do a cycle in the opposite direction of travel (I did cycles (the motion that causes the propulsion) only when the machine swung backwards, causing it to brake).

Basically this means it accelerates only in the forward direction, just as it's designed to do. So... we're close, people! Someone just posted a graph of the dot placement in video 17 (posted above). It's really interesting, because it shows the acceleration so clearly.

http://imgur.com/a/yLBvD (You really need to look at the video first for reference, here it is: https://mega.co.nz/#!4JZEgJLZ!iABc7watO2BWIYc2SDPM7dgVLgQnPPsbR2tZZOrSrQ8 )

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Answer: MD - 11/04/2014 11:06:09
 Video will be available here shortly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNtIiyBmrgs&feature=youtu.be

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Answer: MD - 13/04/2014 10:59:20
 What's with the yawn fest in here?

Anyway, there's been some interesting developments. First off, I do need to perform more experiments to verify results, but I do have some pretty peculiar results. The machine is easily able to get the pendulum swinging, an ability which is pretty much lost if you turn off the gyroscopes. This suggests (but doesn't prove) there's propulsion occurring.

Also, "propulsion" (for a lack of a better word) is only occurring in the direction the machine is designed to produce propulsion, forward! So if you perform a cycle when it's swinging backwards it'll brake the swing. Sometimes even as much as 5cm.

This is the dot tracked in video 17. Notice when you perform a cycle *as* the machine is traveling forward, the swing will get bigger (the biggest change in the blue box). http://i.imgur.com/tlgRpjK.jpg

And if you do it in reverse, you get a smaller swing (biggest change in blue box). http://i.imgur.com/QeuhtU0.jpg

I unfortunately wasn't able to do a lot of experiments with the gyroscopes off, but logically it should behave more or less the same. Since it doesn't, more experiments are in order. More to come!

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Answer: RS - 17/04/2014 20:04:20
 The pendulum test is pretty much the only test that the "scientific community" will accept. We need to show a reliable pendulum test so that the naysayers can finally be proven wrong. I wish I had more time, and money. I now work 3 jobs and work 7 days a week. Plus I live in a condo so my neighbors complain about my grinders if I work past 10pm. So I have only a couple of hours each night to build my very complex machine. It is slowly coming together though.

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Answer: MD - 24/04/2014 14:02:45
 Looks like I'm going back on Wednesday, and I got access to a hall with 15 meters to the roof. I have some questions though.

I'm doing some things differently this time around. I'm going to orient the machine right side up, not up-side-down like last time, so I can attach the laser pointer directly beneath the center of gravity this time (when no cycles are being performed). Doing so with the machine hanging up-side-down would be too much work.

The gyros are also in the "forward" position this time, meaning, if I turn off the gyros and rotate them (do a cycle), they'll move exactly like when they're on. They'll be pulled out by centrifugal forces, then as the rotation stops, they'll be pulled back by the springs.

Now, what type of experiments can/should I do? I'm of course going to try and do continuous cycles, in an effort to make the dot (even when cycles are being performed) remain on one side at all times. That should be "impossible", right?

I'm also going to do more control experiments with the gyros off to try and see if there's any difference. Since the masses that are the gyros moves exactly like when they're on, there shouldn't be any differences. I wanted to do more control experiments (gyros off) last time, but the battery to my camera ran out unexpectedly.

Suggestions? Larger paper for the dot? Maybe one with a grid drawn out? Stronger laser pointer (won't be able to use the strong one I got to borrow last time, so I have some time to buy a new one)?

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Answer: MD - 07/05/2014 15:23:52
 Slight update. The machine broke as I was doing the pendulum test in the hall with 16 meters (54 feet) to the ceiling. One of the couplings for the wires came off and the machine came crashing to the floor.

I just have to repair it and try again. God I'm sore from hauling all that equipment around and climbing ladders all day.

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Answer: MD - 08/07/2014 15:23:30
 (I copied this reply from the kerbalspaceprogram.com forums. YouTube video coming eventually, stay tuned.)

Just back from performing the experiments. I got some really interesting results, and I'd like your opinions on them. For one, it really does look like it passes the pendulum test. While I couldn't get the dot to stay on one side 100% of the time, it really does look like it spends a lot more time on the left side than the right.

There's about 25 videos recorded, but here's a few of them.

This is a short intro, showing the setup and how the gyros are positioned:
]https://mega.co.nz/#!AZxmUDSJ!_LThPqScqb2E73QzvMPjJbvyYlXOl7GMm1VCJW7aDOg

3 good videos, probably the best so far. The numbers after the video number are timestamps where something interesting happens. So "0019-0054" means "check out 00:19-00:54".
https://mega.co.nz/#!8ZRxwIjT!a7fUclUDgHn-15bquqHMQLMfZe2oWoRBTE2MaA76cDc
https://mega.co.nz/#!5FAXzTAR!xa5Zwau8I5tHlLkMW3Xt-HV_-aXqddLsOgpS5y6v4nQ
https://mega.co.nz/#!kEoxSBDZ!d5d0jbH5TWoLm22N6_zgEklYfR7YiUnuAKQIlEWcwZs

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Answer: MD - 09/07/2014 17:39:55
 Youtube video is up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1KtInq4Jo8

This is just a short video as it's intended to just grab your interest. Just looking at tens of minutes of uninterrupted footage of a dot would be too boring. But anyway, I think it covers the basics.

Tell me what you think, of the results that is, not my terrible editing skills. :P

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Answer: MD - 10/07/2014 14:47:59
 Decided to upload all of the videos, which totals over 1 hour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag2NdViY50Q

At the start of the video (about 2 minutes in I think) you can see how it behaves with the gyroscopes off. It utterly loses all ability to stay away from it's starting position.

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