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23 November 2024 21:53
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Welcome to the gyroscope forum. If you have a question about gyroscopes in general,
want to know how they work, or what they can be used for then you can leave your question here for others to answer.
You may also be able to help others by answering some of the questions on the site.
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| Asked by: |
Nitro MacMad |
| Subject: |
A simple practical Quiz. |
| Question: |
Dear all,
There are some really good people now helping describe the maths of gyros on the forum but for those like me who better cope with the empirical rather than the cerebral I offer an easy practical quiz on what turned out to be my first step to impulse drive.
By remarkable coincidence, the two components needed for this simple quiz could be reasonably attributed to the Frenchman Jean Bernard Leon Foucault.
You may have seen in a science museum an example of Foucault’s pendulum. This device in itself deserves your examination, as it is a wonderful way for the earthbound observer to “see” the earth’s rotation and shows that a pendulum will swing back and forth in a straight line until and unless a side force is applied to it.
All who visit here must have seen some form of Foucault’s “gyroscope”.
The combination of these two simple devices forms the practical part of this quiz.
I have previously asked our webmaster if he could include this demonstration on his video clips in GALLERY/MOVIES. Meanwhile however try this:-
Release a pendulum with a gyro that has its axis in line with the pendulum rod.
If the top pivot is free in both axes (e.g. a rose joint), THE PENDULUM WILL DESCRIBE A CURVE.
If the gyro is enclosed in a housing (to remove the possibility of magnus effect), THE PENDULUM WILL DESCRIBE A CURVE.
Although the force of gravity acts in a straight line downwards THE PENDULUM WILL DESCRIBE A CURVE.
Although there is no clear external side force acting to push the pendulum sideways THE PENDULUM WILL DESCRIBE A CURVE.
From the above you may reasonably gather that the fact that THE PENDULUM WILL DESCRIBE A CURVE is, for some reason, important. It is.
A pendulum needs an external side force to cause it to describe a curve.
Your quiz question is: - What is the external side force that causes the above effect.
Please let this site know the results you achieve and acknowledge Nitro MacMad as the source of any advances this may lead you to.
For those who have followed my earlier postings: -
My fast repeater is all but made and will be ready for “firing up” when its temporary fixing are remade with locking tags - very important if you don’t want to be chased by fast moving pieces of metal. Meantime, as even nutters in sheds (inventive geniuses) need a break, I’m off with the wife to the Camargue to see my mate Tony and to enjoy the company of a friendly hardy people, black horses that turn white, empty beaches and still warm seas, iced Muscat de Lunel, La Tour Carbonier, Beuf Gardienne, Chateauneuf du Pape, Soupe de Poison with croutons rubbed with garlic and and and Oh! yes, and I also mean to make the wife smile contentedly a few times - even if, at my great age, that involves a bit more buying than sighing!
Kind Regards
Nitro MacMad
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| Date: |
14 October 2004
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Answers (Ordered by Date)
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| Answer: |
Harvey Fiala - 27/10/2004 00:31:27
| | | Answer to “A simple practical Quiz”:
Hey, Nitro, if I may be presumptive, thanks for the complement. The problem you have presented is a fairly challenging problem. Foucault’s pendulum happens to be a favorite topic of mine because it demonstrates that its frame of reference is not the earth, but rather that of the great fixed stars. This proved that the earth rotated on its axis and was not the “center of the universe” with all the stars and planets rotating around it.
The type of research that you do is very important, even if the theory is not fully understood. About 99.9 percent of all the scientific progress that has been made was the result of exploring further into unexplained anomalies. Anomalies are the windows to the unexplained rest of the universe. Only by looking through these windows are we going to learn more.
I am not sure what you mean by a “Foucault gyroscope”, even though there is a very low resolution picture of one in the Gallery section of this web site. I will assume that a Foucault Gyroscope is simple a gyroscope connected to the bottom end of a pendulum, either through a rigid connection or through a swivel joint and able to move at any angle below the axis of the pendulum.
You do not state what kind of curve is executed. Technically, even if the gyroscope rotor is not spinning and is swinging in a single plane, the pendulum is still describing a curve; that is the arc or lower part of the circular path that it is describing. However, I am sure that is not the curve that you meant.
When you state, “the top pivot point is free in both axes”, it is not clear if you mean at the top of the pendulum or at the top of the gyroscope where it is connected to the bottom of the pendulum. However, I think you mean at the top of the gyroscope where it is connected to the bottom of the pendulum. Although the final answer may not be any different because, if the gyroscope is rigidly connected to the bottom of the pendulum with its spin axis in line with the pendulum shaft, the combination is simply and exactly equivalent to a gyroscope with a longer lever arm or spin axis; however the motions will be more subdued than if there were a swivel joint between the two.
You state that “A pendulum needs an external side force to cause it to describe a curve”. That is not correct. A simple toy pendulum sitting on a pivot point goes round and round from one side to the other without any apparent external side force. That is simply what scientists have been calling “precession” due to conservation of angular momentum. However, this does not mean that I completely agree with science’s over-simplified explanation of precession. I am convinced that there is a bit more to it than that.
When you first log on to this web-site the opening page is titled.” MASS TRANSFER”, 'An Introduction' based on experimental work at the University of Sussex by Prof. E.R. Laithwaite and W.R.C. Dawson, A SYSTEM FOR THE TRANSFER OF MASS DERIVED FROM THE PRINCIPLE OF CONSERVATION OF MOMENTUM. This introduction that what I have termed “Motion by Mass Transfer” describes precessing masses whereby no external force is needed for an enclosed system is able to move to a totally new location.
Sometime around 1970 or so, Alex Jones, the original discoverer or inventor of “motion by mass displacement” walked into Dr. Eric Laithwaite’s office and demonstrated a mechanical device using a precessing mass that MOVED FORWARD WITHOUT ANY EXTERNAL FORCES or traction wheels. Dr. Laithwaite himself admits, in the BBC (British Broadcasting Company) video titled “The Heretics” based on his 1974-1975 Royal Institution Christmas lecture, that Alex Jones demonstrated to him something totally new, and it “seemed like magic”. However, from that point on, Dr. Laithwaite, in all of his patents and other writings, never gave one drop of credit to Alex Jones, even though that demonstration by Alex was the trigger for all of Dr. Laithwaite’s subsequent research and fame or notoriety in this area. I would have given credit where credit is due.
There are three components or forces that I am aware of that cause the gyro to describe a curve, or in general, not following an arc of a circular curve in a single plane. First, if the pendulum were not swinging, but hanging straight down, then a spinning gyroscope would not move. There are no torques applied about its spin axis. Once the pendulum is set to swinging, it is like a moving pivot point and since the gyro started out with its axis not vertical but rather parallel to the axis of the pendulum, there will be a gravitational torque on the gyroscope and it will begin to precess sideways, thus describing what you call a “CURVE”. The magnitude of this gravitational torque varies constantly with its magnitude going to zero momentarily if the spin axis of the gyroscope happens to pass through the true local vertical and through a maximum when the spin axis makes the largest angle with the local vertical as it precesses horizontally.
Now if the gimbals and spin axis weighed exactly zero, there would be no reaction to the circular horizontal precessional motion or centrifugal forces and the pendulum would swing in a single plane with the gyro precessing horizontally below it. However, since the gimbal assembly and spin axis do have mass and are not spinning, there will be a centrifugal force based upon the horizontal component of the circular precession motion. This component of centrifugal force will pull the pendulum slightly out of its plane of motion and contribute to what you call a “CURVE”, although this component is smaller than the gravitational torquing component.
There is one more physical force acting on the system, even if the gimbal assembly and spin axis weighed zero. That is because gravity does not act “straight down”, rather it acts radially inward toward the center of the earth. All gravitational flux lines are radial lines of force acting toward the center of the earth and their magnitude decreases inversely with the square of the distance from the center of the earth. Therefore in any space of non-zero dimensions, there will exist a gravity gradient. Now this effect is so small that on the scale of your experiment that you will not notice it. However, The “Mass Sensor”, also called the “Gravity Gradient Sensor”, a very small but precision device, developed by Dr. Robert L. Forward in the mid 1960s, operates on the principle of measuring this gradient, and so this effect is measurable, but not in the context of your experiment. When the pendulum is at an extreme of its swing, it is slightly higher in elevation and therefore the magnitude of the gravity force is very very slightly smaller than when the pendulum is at the bottom of its swing. Also, the gravitational flux lines at each end of the pendulum’s swing are not parallel lines, but rather radial lines. If you think this analysis is complex, try studying the theory behind Gravity Probe B which was launched on April 20, 2004 at 9:55 am from Vandenburg Air Force Base in California. Or study the theory behind the Lageos I and II satellites.
Dr. Forward developed the Mass Sensor at Hughes Aircraft Research Labs in Malibu, California while I worked for Hughes at their Missile System’s Division in Culver City, California
By the way, I do not know what your fast repeater is. I would be interested in hearing more about it. Also, I trust you are enjoying, or did enjoy your vacation.
Harvey Fiala
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| Answer: |
Nitro MacMad - 03/11/2004 23:19:53
| | | Dear Harvey Fiala,
It is interesting that Foulcault’s pendulum still has uses, maybe it will show where it all started - or where it will all end.
My mention of Foulcault’s gyroscope refers to a simple gyroscope, as he was one of the earliest discoverers and apparently the one who coined the name.
I no longer need to enlarge on the “gyro pendulum” description as our webmaster has pre-empted the need for my further description by the inclusion on this site of the “Heretic” video.
About seven minutes into this video a version of Alex Jones’ gyro pendulum is shown. Sadly Alex Jones had no understanding of the sceptical eyes that would be turned on this video. He releases the pendulum by hand and, although he doesn’t need to, it does seem as though he helps the trolley move on its way.
I’m not sure that Alex Jones lacked acknowledgement from Prof. Laithwaite. He was in the Heretic video still showing the pendulum device hardly advanced from decades before while Laithwaite had ventured further to try for the fast repeater - albeit unsuccessfully.
The original gyro pendulum device that I made (which I believe pre-dated that of Alex Jones and, as we shared the same island watering holes, may have been his source - though simultaneous invention does happen so who the hell knows now!) had its motive force (elastic band and gravity) held in tension by a cotton thread. To avoid any risk of manually influencing the motions mine had the cotton thread burnt through to release the motive tension. A similar unopposed mass displacement, seen in the video, occurred.
When the gyro pendulum is viewed from above (or indeed from below) instead of describing a straight to and fro line, the precession from the gyro causes the pendulum to describe a curve. In itself an inconsiderable effect but, as there is no (or rather, very little) opposing movement on the top pivot, it is the start of a path to a miracle!
The devices were mounted on wheels or rollers which transferred forces in the normal pendulum swing plane to the earth (fairly unmovable) while permitting motion of the trolley (fairly movable) in the curve plane. Thus it was a bit of a cheat as it would produce little if any overall displacement if it were placed on an air bed. However it requires little imagination to make a machine to produce a displacement on an air bed.
That was the single shot machine which lead to the slow repeater and (dear god hopefully soon) the fast repeater.
Thank you. I had a wonderful vacation, made even more special by meandering some very pretty parts of the Loire, Dordogne, and Rhone, then seeing an old friend on the Camargue. Bringing back a few bottles from a negotiante in Chateauneuf du Pape I last saw sixteen years ago, some Muscat de Lunel and some of Thiery Chapute’s Montlouis to enable us to sip fond memories over the windy winter will make the memories linger.
Kind regards
NM
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