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Asked by: Blaze
Subject: Goodbye to the gyro dream world and the people in it
Question: Definitions of dream world from various dictionaries:
1) the world of imagination or illusion rather than of objective reality.
2) a fantastic or idealized view of life
3) a world of illusion or fantasy
4) the realm of fantasy; the world as seen by one full of illusions about life
5) a place that exists only in imagination
6) a world that is not like the real world; a person’s idea of reality that is not realistic

The “experts” living in the gyro dream world on this forum believe that, for a precessing gyro:
- some or all of the laws of physics don’t apply
- there is something mystical or magical or at least something unknown happening that science won’t recognize or acknowledge
- there is no momentum
- the gyro loses inertia
- the gyro loses weight
- there is no centrifugal force
- theories of “dark” motions abound
- theories of “dark” forces abound
- change from one precession speed to another precession speed is instantaneous
- full precession speed is reached instantaneously from zero precession speed when a gyro starts to precess
- zero precession speed is reached instantaneously from full precession speed when a gyro stops precessing
- common sense statements are called “laws” and the at least some of the laws of physics don’t apply
- anyone who can show that a precessing gyro does follow the laws of physics “just doesn’t understand” or is just plain “wrong” (or maybe doesn’t “believe” enough?)
- and probably several other magical things that the “experts know” that I don’t know about

According to the “experts” of the gyro dream world, all of those beliefs actually happen simply because a gyro is spinning matter that is moving in a circular path (but these “experts” can’t and will never understand why so very few people believe them).

Imagine the shock that race car drivers will have when they realize that their rims and tires will lose weight, momentum and inertia when they are cornering at high speeds, not to mention the engine flywheel, pulleys, transmission gears, turbo charger impellers, and everything else that is rotating at high speed. Or imagine how happy fighter pilots will be with the extra maneuverability they gain during sharp turns because their engines lose weight and inertia. What will helicopter pilots think when every time they tilt there craft in any direction the main rotor loses weight, momentum and inertia and some (or maybe all?) of the laws of physics don’t apply to the main rotor during those maneuvers?

If that list of beliefs of the gyro dream world folks doesn’t fall into the definitions of a dream world, then nothing does. The sad fact is that some of the dream world folk on this forum have been dreaming for far too many years even though, from time to time, others have entered their dream world and (according to all the “experts” of the dream world incorrectly) tried to show them the way out by showing them that all the laws of physics do apply to precessing gyros and all motions of gyros CAN be explained with the known laws of physics. But nothing can or will wake the dream world folk from the gyro impossibilities that is their dream world.

After all, anything is possible in a dream, even the impossible.

Well, all you people living in the dream world of precessing gyro impossibilities can breathe a sigh of relief as I am leaving you to your dream world. I will no longer bother to waste my time to discuss anything with anyone who is living in the gyro dream world, which unfortunately appears to be virtually everyone on this forum.

Goodbye to all.
It is unlikely you will hear from me again (except perhaps in your dreams? Who knows?). Hopefully you will someday wake up from your dream world. Until then, I expect you will simply keep on dreaming, happy in your "knowledge" that all of your beliefs about precessing gyros are absolutely correct.

Date: 15 March 2015
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Answers (Ordered by Date)

Answer: Sandy - 16/03/2015 11:00:51
 Hello, all you dreamers,
It just goes to show, that there is not much point in leading hydrophobic horses to water.

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Answer: Momentus - 16/03/2015 15:31:45
 Hi Blaze,
Are you assuming that the only people who visit this site are those who are currently posting? That there is not a proto Blaze out there right now who might benefit from our exchanges?
Yes I am a dreamer. I also read the standard text books on Gyrodynamics. Where by applying the accepted laws of physics, gyros are shown to precess instantaneously. To “believe” otherwise is to deny these laws. Google instantaneous precession and argue with the world at large.
There is only my theory of dark motion, scarcely an aboundance.
Your slow rotation speed gyro experiments with more inert mass than active mass will show the results that you expect.
I assume from your rant that your ideas for an inertial drive did not fly.
You are right about the “Hard Core” shed dwellers. We know that there is a gyroscope anomaly and that there is no science that explains it.
This is a unique forum. We do not Troll and we do not flame. All the views which are expressed are considered. Perhaps you should look inward for the solution to your problem with other people’s points of view.


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Answer: Nitro - 16/03/2015 20:58:49
 Oh dear, oh dear!


You have chosen to waste your time looking up the dictionary definition of dream world, Instead of doing the easier, and more useful thing, of reading again my description of the most likely reason that precession vanishes “the effect of” inertial mass. You then, irritatingly, go on to claim that I have claimed things, like there is no momentum, the gyro loses inertia, the gyro loses weight, there is no centrifugal force. I have never knowingly claimed any of these things.

Blaze, I think that your comment that:- “I will no longer bother to waste my time to discuss anything with anyone who is living in the gyro dream world, which unfortunately appears to be virtually everyone on this forum.” says an awful lot about you.

When someone thinks that everyone else is thinking wrong, and goes on to claim things were said by others, that were never said, is very worrying. When that person goes on to say that “VIRTUALLY EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS FORUM IS LIVING IN A DREAM WORLD” would seem to be a worrying sign of Paranoia or to be like the comments of a blinded-by-love-to-the-truth mother who says:- Look there is my little son Jimmy in the parade - he is the only one who is not out of step!

Time for reflection, Blaze.


Hi Sandy, Hi Momentus

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Answer: Glenn Hawkins - 19/03/2015 15:33:19
 You are all generally almost the same things in a general way, but not exactly the same things in the same ways. Excuse me Blaze, but you you too.

Look at this as it is related tho the argument.
The forth post down 19/03/2015 15:20:37

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Answer: Sandy - 19/03/2015 19:50:05
 Good evening Nitro, Momentus, Glenn, and any other interested dreamers.
I thought you might like this.

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence: then success is sure”
Mark Twain.


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Answer: Sandy - 19/03/2015 22:54:15
 Evening Dreamers,
How do you like this?



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Answer: Nitro - 20/03/2015 11:43:24
 Hi Sandy

Can’t quite make out if this guy Theoria (meaning; knowledge of the divine) Apophasis (meaning; denial of ones intention to speak of a subject that is at the same time spoken of), is clever or just clever with unorthodox words, like a quack Doctor. However, judging by his ghastly taste in tattoos, I wouldn’t let him decorate my house.

I found Eric Laithwaite’s demo, that is also on this guy’s YouTube site, of the lost weight effect a more dramatic video. I have yet to explain this to my satisfaction using classic gyrodynamic or Newtonian physics.


kind regards

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Answer: Glenn Hawkins - 20/03/2015 13:36:26
 Hi Sandy,
Feeling kindly this morning, I only say the fellow has mental issues and is quite challenged.
In the seven minutes I gave him-- I could not tolerate more. He gibber jabbered excitedly, rapidly on with none sense while having claiming a child could understand and never once did he explain or make a lick of sense. Regards, Glenn

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Answer: Glenn Hawkins - 20/03/2015 13:53:16
 He is on barbiturates; a speed freak. In retrospect I recognize it. I am pretty sure; and he likely knows nothing of consequences, certainly nothing came of my seven minute investment..

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Answer: MD - 20/03/2015 22:06:01
 Nitro, thank you for that link. I've known about his lectures, but for some reason I missed that clip.

That video made my chest tingly. What a complete mystery! I can't explan why the balance point would change and how that's compatible with weight not changing. One of the youtube comments said the scale used to see if the weight changed was a simple bathroom scale, meaning NOT suitable for scientific study.

This is what I'm sort of counting on with my machine as well. The experiments I've done are the first ones of their kind, and has never been attempted by scientists because, well, scientists are bad at measuring change within moving systems. They want something smooth, and that's why trying to measure if gyroscopes lose weight has only been done with simple gravity driven precession (the normal kind where it sits on a top and precesses, like a toy).

The project is on hold, but absolutely not abandoned. New stuff probably coming this summer when I get a break from studying math and programming (such a time sink, those).

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Answer: Sandy - 21/03/2015 00:16:18
It is very hard, as the recent thread has proved, to predict what is happening in a gravity accelerated system.
Some of us know what goes on, but it is very hard to convince others.

I have reported the following on previous posts over the years.

A mechanically accelerated system can provide all the factors required, in order to prove loss of weight, but mechanically accelerated systems seem to be scarcer than the proverbial hobby horses whatever.
Produce a twin gyroscope or flywheel device with a fair bit of vertical gyroscope offset, 45 degrees is fine.
Obviously to hold the arms up at 45 degrees requires restraining links attaching the gyroscope or flywheel support arms to the centre or hub of the device.
Strain gauges can be attached to those links easily providing one with centrifugal force readings which can be seen on an oscilloscope.
It would help if the gyro or flywheel rotation speeds are synchronised, if not you will soon see why.
Slip-rings will be required to get the signals out unless you have access to telemetry.
If the device is rotated at a fixed speed any change to the rotation speed of the gyros will change the centrifugal force accordingly.
From there it is easy to calculate changes in gyroscope weight.
I demonstrated this in a university 30 years ago.
No comment was ever made, reported or recorded.
I do not think many of them suffer from ulcers, besides why rock the boat.
At what I call the saturation point the gyroscope or flywheel weight loss is total.

PS This will not help you produce inertial thrust but it is nice to know what is really going on.

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Answer: MD - 24/03/2015 13:42:23
 Sandy, I wish I understood all that. Could you perhaps rewrite it with terms that a 10 year old could understand? English is my second language, and I don't understand terms like "sliprings", "offset" and the like. Any technical term that is.

If you know how, drawings would be much appreciated. Imgur.com is a nice, free place where you can upload any drawings made on your computer.

You press "Upload images" in the top left corner, press "Browse your computer", then find the image file you want to upload, press "start upload", and then you get a page like this:


Just copy the adress in the adress bar, like I just did, and paste it.

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Answer: Glenn Hawkins - 28/07/2015 03:05:21
 Hello Blaze,

I hope all is well.

“. . . things that the “experts know” that I don’t know about.”

OK, why not?
Why do your wagon wheels roll back and forth? Why does the ice mass follow the wheel in binary rotation? Why does the platform on an air table rotate binary to precession? Why does Hilliary's demonstrate show an acting beary center?

From a side view, see the gyro paused and poised in stop-frame action at any fulcrum angle. Note that normally its shaft tip at the pivot is a ball. The torque down on the ball to table is always completely vertical no matter what the angle of the shaft.

Now take a compass and use the center of the wheel as an axes and rotate the compass point through the pivot and beyond to form a vertical circle.

Add space below the pivot platform until it touches the bottom circumference of that circle. Add another platform there and put wheels on it.

Can you now see again the compass quarter circle? Can you reason that the earlier vertical force is now curved to become a victor following the flywheel? Everything about a gyroscope works at a right angle and the torque toward and below the gyro becomes a sideways torque as the gyroscope twist in its orbit and rolls your wagon wheels. This is all caused by the space added.

A one inch high pedestal with crushed ice under it will do the same binary rotation, but if you remove the pedestal and allow the contact of the hard steel pivot ball to a slick marble top table, there will be no sliding of the pivot during precession.

Consider too that once the binary rotation is nudge slightly into being, the opposite momentum of each mass empowers the other in what looks like an exponential factor and so quickly you get an equally spaced bary center from a very modest beginning nudge.

You may then realize the Supper Precision Gyroscope’s 5 oz. flywheel orbiting fast around its stationary pivot on a table and know that is the natural condition of precession.

The inward torque of precession is acting more strongly than the angular momentum even though the full and right amount of angular momentum and centrifuge is being rightly exerted.

The laws of physics are acting exactly as they should in every detail during precession. The experts have a workable mathematical model, but it is proof they do not have a clue of what and how the gyro works . . . only what it does and little of what it is capable of. It kind of irks you that they keep trying to explain away what they will not see.

The shorter answer is: “Two masses, one a rotating flywheel, are rotating in a binary way around one another. What happens if you remove one of the masses? What if the removed mass is the mass that countered the flywheel?

You may then realize the Supper Precision Gyroscope’s 5 oz. flywheel connected by a 100 mm shaft to pivot is orbiting fast around its stationary pivot on a polished table and know you are seeing the natural condition of precession.

I think there is no argument that can be reasoned to explain otherwise why the angular momentum is not dragging the pivot, (I have tested this gyroscope. I have tested lots of stuff) and why Sandy’s gauges register an inward force, but for this explanation. Actually, I have more information in theory, but it shouldn’t be necessary.

Your post is otherwise excellent in many ways, but maybe not in all ways?

Good evening, to you and your sidekick what’s his name? Hi Harold, you know I would not forget your name. I hope you are well and happy too.


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Answer: Glenn Hawkins - 31/07/2015 20:54:59
 Forget the height. It will misleads one.

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