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27 June 2019 01:49

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Question

Asked by: Nitro
Subject: reply to Kristijans post
Question: Answer: kristijan - 15/11/2017 13:19:23
Great topic. Gyroscopic precession has no moment of inertia and this cna be used for more thing than talking. Here is a device that was made by me that uses gyroscopic precession for propulsion. This propulsion theoretically can be used in space...What do you think about it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZP_ZbnGA9I&t=443s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo-qR0lx_io

Please comment.
thnank you
dr. kristijan
dr.todoroski@gmail.com




Hi Kristijan

Your machine has all the elements required for propulsion but suffers from the common problems that I, and I am sure others, have struggled to overcome. This, apart from time, engineering ability, money or an engineering savvy friend, is the age old problem of getting the gyrodynamic forces large enough so they are not swamped by the useless non gyrodynamic mass of the mechanism, frame, power source and motors. Without better gyrodynamics (or lighter mechanics) your device is doomed to be written of by all but the cognoscenti as yet another example of a “slip/ stick” effect.

While Sandy’s reply saying that your machine would only work within a gravitational field may be technically correct the effect of gravity can always, I have found, be replicated by other force producing devices as simple as a spring or even an elastic band. In space it would also, of course, require a mirroring machine to cancel out the torque of a single machine.

As Sandy said in his reply to you; good luck, though don’t go crazy on patents yet as one of mine predates where I think you are going and would constitute prior art. And, as you probably have discovered, the device will only produce movement in discrete packages (impulses). While the fact that it punches a hole in the third law is fantastic and it may enable further improvement as understanding improves, it is pretty useless for propulsion if constant acceleration cannot be achieved.

As your post is buried in amongst old answers that most will not find I shall also copy this to the new questions section so more can see your video link.

Kind regards
NM
Date: 19 November 2017
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Answers (Ordered by Date)


Answer: Brian Morris - 12/12/2017 12:06:55
 Hi Kristian

An interesting machine. It is a variation on the constant velocity machines or inchworms , walkers etc that others have posted on the forum. It is based on Prof Laithwaite's patented 'up as a gyro, down as a mass' principle and has the same limitation. It does not accelerate the inert mass, only displaces it.

I interpret Sandy's comment as it will not overcome gravity, it cannot hover. As Nitro says gravity can be emulated by an elastic band. Your model will work in space if you attach a mirror image of it to itself!! You will then have a space paddle or a means of maneuvering around without reaction mass! Discussed elsewhere on the forum.

Your model adds to the growing number of examples that show the current paradigm of Newton dynamics is incomplete, as such it has value. If you do get a University Professor to give a considered opinion, I for one would love to hear it.

Good luck with your endeavours.

Momentus

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Answer: kristijan - 06/01/2019 15:52:30
 Nitro, please read this whole post and comment on it. I am in contact with M-Thruster and shared my ideas with him. I hope that one of us or someone else will finish this.

Look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeyDf4ooPdo

The reason why it is easier to lift the gyro wile spinning is because it has no inertia. Tthe weight of the gyro is still the same it just has no inertia when he is lifting it wile precessing. That is why it feels lighter...he does not fight against the inertia. You can see this when he is on a scale in the next video. When he lifts the gyro wile standing on a scale the needle of the scale wobbles around one weight, it only massively changes at the end when he returned the gyro down...BUT without a precession, he just put it down. That way it has inertia and it showed on the scale.It is on this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLMpdBjA2SU&

Please look at my device:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3U9BH_al_A


You must understand the most important thing. .
The most important thing is that the precession must stop with precession. What this means. Imagine you re in space, weightless and no air around you. Your arms are spread and you flap them once as a bird and stop. Will you move? No you will not. Why? Because the movement of the arms DOWN will cause opposite reaction by the Newtons law, and when you stop your arms this force will be equal and in the opposite direction so you will not move at all.
Now this is why the movement of the arm must be stopped by precession.
When you rotate the device the arms go forward due to precession and this movement is without inertia. When you stop the gyroscopes rotating action the precesson stops and the arms go back due to centrifugal force. But if you don't stop this movement by another precession (start the rotation of the arms) the force will cancel itself (same as that astronaut). But when you stop the back motion of the arms (caused by the cetrifugal force only) the inertia is cancelled by precession. In this case the astronaut an move forward. That is why you get a forward motion.

I shared all this with M Thruster on youtube. He is reluctant to communicate even though I think he can tweak his device much better. Hop he will listen, I'm sure he will.

best regards
kristijan

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Answer: d brown - 02/04/2019 06:03:29
 Hi.
Maybe try a different support point for this reason:

- If you put a gyro on a long bar and the end of the bar on a support on a scale, the weight will be transfered to the support point and weigh what the bar and gyro weigh.

Now think torque.

- This time support the bar with a pivot point one foot from the end you supported the first time... on a scale at that pivot point... on a lazy susan so it has the same circumference to travel through the air... with counter weight on lazy susan so the lazy susan doesn't fall over... then all that on a scale.
- The scale away from the end should show a lighter weight. And humans may be forcing a little when they hold it which makes for still less upward force needed.
- The second scale will show full weight of everything.

All looking just like Laithwaite's over the table edge balancing "trick".
:)

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Answer: d brown - 02/04/2019 06:15:22
 My bad.
It's the video before the over the edge one.

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Answer: d brown - 02/04/2019 13:47:42
 Just a clarification about pushing in the direction of precession.
- If you help the precession of the lazy susan setup, the gyro will rise, and it will pivot around the closest pivot point.

-- In 2005 I had my finger under the short threaded part of an unmounted bicycle front wheel and slowly turned myself with the precessing wheel. (Have you tried that? It shows you that you can change the "support" point by giving it a different diameter circle path. It wasn't going around the tip of mry finger but all of me with the "support" point inside of me.) Then I clamped my thumb down on top of the threaded part and started to help the precession; I put a little more than a little effort into that and the wheel top hit me in the forehead as I did not have enough torque at the closest pivot point. (And nearly broke a finger in the spokes.)
--- (The gyro wants to turn at its center of mass. Our putting a 5 mile stick on a gyro only changes our leverage.)

- So, I said that in the videos they may be helping the precession as they lift the 40lb weight but, they'll feel that twist at the pivot point in their hand. You can see it in their struggle if you look for it. You will also see in their expressions as they, again unknowingly, change the distance between the "support" point and where their hand is supporting it.

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