Home : Gallery : History : Uses : Behaviour : Maths : Forum : Propulsion : Links : Glossary
Main Forum Page

The Gyroscope Forum

17 September 2019 04:20

Welcome to the gyroscope forum. If you have a question about gyroscopes in general, want to know how they work, or what they can be used for then you can leave your question here for others to answer. You may also be able to help others by answering some of the questions on the site.

Search the forum:  
 

Question

Asked by: d brown
Subject: its where you hold it
Question: This video which is not mine demonstrates what I mean by holding it not at the Pivot Point of the gyroscope, so the gyroscope's pivot point is like it's going to make a larger Circle but you're stood where the bearing is put and your hands forcing it differently cuz if you look, the gyroscope is pivoted for a different path than it's allowed to take. anyway I know you all will understand it when you see it and that's why it goes up therefore feeling later.
A weight scale at the Pivot Point supporting the gyroscope and a scale of sorts where your hand would be which is right above the bearing would both be very interesting to see I don't know how it would be done.

youtube watch number is
=xf1Nt3KLm-U
Date: 29 June 2019
report abuse


Answers (Ordered by Date)


Answer: d brown - 29/06/2019 02:30:32
 ...and therefore feel lighter. ...not LATER, useless voice to text.

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 29/06/2019 02:53:30
 Oh man I just remembered something this might freak you out if you put a bar to prevent it from going up gravity/downforce increases and it'll spin faster this is the perfect setup to test that like I say you might want a blanket or something to throw on it incase it starts to go out of control and I'm not joking you take any gyroscope and push down on it, it wants to go faster and yours is going up which is just more downforce created by itself.

I think we just found the Holy Grail
They might kill me by morning with this one LOL

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 30/06/2019 16:43:19
 Small addition:
When you block it from precessing upwards you will allow it to rotate freely around the bearing and it will continue to want to precess and continue to rotate without restriction and due to the seemingly infinite acceleration rate gyros seem to have this might go out of control rather quickly especially, and this is the addition, if you have it properly balanced on the two sides of the bearing, as the non spinning weight will take control of the show.

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 12/07/2019 10:03:37
 just realized how this covers my nearly-broken-fingers attempt from @2005; if you stop it from going up against a stationary ring with a ring added to the gyro, of appropriate size and of course also spinning, it will accerate the RPM and spin forever.

This is how you extract energy from gravity.
Perpetual motion. Scary!!!

A gyro redirects torque and here it is the torque of gravity. That simple.
We will call it the Gyro Age, please.


Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 13/07/2019 07:18:00
 i think we can also gleen from that video, if watch when it falls, that it goes from being able to precess to the point of not being able to after it crosses to the other side of the bearing's center.
...it then begins to fall and is just as fast back on the precession-able side of the bearing but as there is so much vibrational energy, i'm educatedly guessing, within the flywheel that it is in a state of caos and inable to react precessionally to the force of gravity as before.

yet probably not the best or safest way to control a massive spinning flywheel.

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 15/07/2019 09:12:45
 about the ring added to the gyro which would be helping the gyro MAINTAIN its RPM:
- it would probably be of the sun gear design and probably one inside another with the last ring being part of the flywheel and therefore share/be-at its RPM. This is to get the smallest toothed wheel at a slow enough rate matching precession speed as it runs around in contact with the stationary ring, which is toothed aswell.
- sorry but the setup is really starting to look UFO in shape. LOL coincidence.
- an interesting thing is that the gearing will dictate the RPM due to the fact that precession comes closer to stopped as the angular momentum increases. And so there may also be a minimum setup energy/speed/RPM to let the system tend to itself; any load on the pivot shaft would have a max too (the point the whole system rotates about.).
- - also a slower RPM would have a faster precession speed and make the gearing a little easier; probably start with a rubber non-toothed smallest gear running against a larger ring on outter side of the flywheel. ( would help get rid of UFO shape as well a tad. Also, thinking of a whiring sound from this and the instability from a jerked flywheel, as seen in the video, that would knock itself out of the sky, if it did rise up, seems quite similar to sighting comments i've youtubed. Interesting. )
:)



Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 15/07/2019 22:36:29
 now to be clear, i'm not saying it will fly.

once it gets to precessing upward you nolonger need gravity, as the stationary ring will be providing the "down"/opposong force. All that would be needed is a base that wont be able to twist in the opposite direction to the precession.
hello mars, here we come?

(an inner and outter set of angle bearings would be best for the flywheel, like in the hubs of car wheels.)

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 18/07/2019 09:26:07
 for the gearing,
if you open a gyro hand exercise ball, that small shaft would be about the size needed to avoid any gearing for a test run.
infact, that ball is exactly what will be going on except the ball needs your hand to torque as both sides touch instead of one like in the video.


Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 19/07/2019 20:45:11
 i guess i should call it perpetual acceleration as it is hard to get exactly perpetual without some acceleration to at least overcome some fricton plus the fact that it is gravity which is being harnessed to get us on the right path.
...not to forget the video; after all just one picture is worth a thousand words and he gve us an mpeg.

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 21/07/2019 18:33:29
 these are corrections to the above posts of mine that are not quite right, or a little misleading:

original post:
- Pivot Point SHOULD-BE Support Point (all 3 times).
- pivoted SHOULD-BE supported.
- later SHOULD-BE lighter (the same correction I made in the 1st reply).
- the Bearing I refer to both times is the one in the base which the system rotates about.
- (and the base does not need wheels for what I am talking about, nor does his talk afterwards need to be watched. I actually dont think he has thought to wrap wire around the 2 posts, under the nuts, to stop the gyro going up. That alone would demonstrate my point and then it would just be missing the gyro RPM assist that is found in a gyro hand-exercise ball.)
- the youtube address I had a hard time to paste. Here is the complete address:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xf1Nt3KLm-U

reply 2:
- here I meant the gyro will precess faster, not spin faster.

reply 3:
- precessing upwards SHOULD-BE rising upwards.
...infact, omit reply3 completely, it is unnecessary.

reply 4:
- the stationary ring would be attached to the base giving the dreaded UFO look. What rests against it would be a small pin like in a gyro hand-exercise ball. (if you altered the gyro in the movie, it would need a solidly attached hubcap with a small pin sticking out from its center, of course spinning as it would be part of the gyro, and solidly made.) And the stationary ring would be about 5 inches in diameter solidly held above, and centered over, the base bearing, supported by a rigid framing.
- a gyro redirects torque about 90 Degrees and here it is the torque Caused by gravity.

reply 5:
- can be omitted. just more general thoughts.

reply 6:
- additional comment:
there may be a specific precession-rate to gyro-RPM relationship for a given gear ratio. Something simple and variable like a skidoo belt transmission may be the requirement. That way we could get a massive flywheel up to speed before it engages the gearing and drives itself.

reply 7:
- precessing upward SHOULD-BE rising upward.

reply 8:
- can be omitted now

reply 9:
---

enjoy.
:)

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 26/07/2019 02:16:30
 ok, so for the 40lbs on a stick, it has to do with where you hold it.

as for perpetual motion it turns out it is the simple setup i did in 2005, under the name dave brown here.

- i had a car tire valve installer i nolonger used, with a bicycle wheel mounting nut welded to it along with a few inches of extension, so that i had a solid connection to my bicycle wheel, that i pilfered for my gyroscope play times. Also, i pilfered an inline skate wheel that i wired to the bicycle wheel, centered around the wheel hub as they had to turn as one.
- lastly a large size coffee can, with the sides cut down so i could put the valve installer handle through the bottom and lid centers, for the skate wheel to have a somewhat sturdy surface to ride on.
--- that's it, that's all.

i started the wheels turning, nothing extravagant, and as i helped precession to bring the skate wheel up and into contact with the coffee can, it wasn't more than 5 degrees of precession direction movement that the bicycle wheel started pushing up, the skate wheel tried to destroy the coffee can, everything went out of control and tumbled to the floor in a heap of clangs and bangs with my fingers screaming bloody murder....
....it was the wee hours of the morning and i decided not to attempt it again. besides, the coffee can wasn't looking too healthy. i thought that i had made an idiot's setup or this thing was beyond reproach and the cat's meow. it seems the latter is the winner.

So now i can get myself a cheap gyro and redo the setup myself yet, i tested it 14 years ago. once the extra precessional direction torque was being created by the skate wheel against the coffee can bottom, and the coffee can was not allowing the upward precession demanded for by the assist in the direction of the primary precession, it accelerated in the direction of the primary precession. gravity is nolonger needed.

- The video link and gravity together are what would eventually send anyone in the this desired direction BUT, not if the only thing you're looking for is GYROSCOPIC thrust or levitation. All my setup does is redirect a torque and, allow us to use any excess precession rate to maintain, at the least, the RPM of the gyro.

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 01/08/2019 03:22:37
 hi sandy.
i was just watching one of your videos and saw how similar our designs are.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HAckjYtdig0

i feel you are not letting the gyro do its work by holding it too close to its center of mass
if you try with one end of the gyros
in the center of the rig and in roller bearings and
12" from gyro center of mass and
the other end
in a ring around the rig and in roller bearings and
4" from gyro center of mass,
Then forcibly spin the outer ring, and the gyros, which can not move up or down so the gyro feels lets say 30 ft/lbs of torque,
you'll have
30 lbs at the 12" end and 3 times that at thse 4" end.

30 lbs in one direction and 90 lbs in the other.

i tried something similar but not the same in 2006 but was able to replace every force with an elastic. i dont think what i've written here can be replaced with elastics. that, or didn't fully understand the gyro at the time.

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 01/08/2019 03:43:49
 in this video is exactly the principal
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ExCC9zZeZuY

although it is only moving something up instead of forcing
and
instead of holding the opposite side of the gyro, the held position is a fulcrum and i believe would defeat what you are after. ( hold the outter side and not let the arms move.)
also
i would start with decently weighted gyros, spun rather quickly, and then the force put in would show at the output.

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 01/08/2019 04:24:13
 i see what you are doing. my 2 othef posts to you wont work.

you are effectively putting a broom handle almost all the way into a box on the 4 sides so it is pressing on the bottom and the tops of holes in the sides, then increasing torque. i get it.

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 04/08/2019 19:27:50
 hi sandy.
there is a maximum reactionary force that can be reached in the secondary precession directon. (i call it the polar precession direction, PPD, as opposed to the original precession direction which i call the orbital precession direction, OPD.)
- i don't know what governs that number. i can't even guess if it is a percentage of something; well, based on all of the gyro's reactions being torque related, i would guess that the diameter of the flywheel is a big part of it. i can also easily "see" people saying they have the same angular momentum in the new setup as the time it worked but now it's a no-go; unless, of course, identical angular momentum means identical reactions.

all the best.

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 04/08/2019 19:36:03
 yes yes yes,
this may be where nutation thinking can help. (whatever i decide i don't care about always means something in the end.)
the extra flex in the flywheel due to the extra size in diameter may require a higher torque to "go and get" all the nutational energy out of the flywheel.

hmmmmm bicycle wheel gyros do seem to be quite feisty.

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 04/08/2019 19:46:45
 i forgot to say,
after the max force in the PPD is reached, the rest of the force goes into acceleration in the OPD.
and once you can govern that, you control the G-force in the PPD and therefore, the "lift".

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 04/08/2019 21:06:18
 2 corrections.
1) the max force has to do with when there is resistance to the precession.
2) what i said about the PPD is, of course, true about the OPD.

Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 07/08/2019 03:19:47
 post 5 in a row still to sandy
increasing the force required to stop precession seems to be the key.
and for your setup, as you don't have a PPD, having the OPD restraint close to the system's pivot point and far from the gyro is going to be the quickest way to see results without a need for math or headache.


Report Abuse
Answer: d brown - 23/08/2019 20:01:07
 a few more than 5 posts it was. my bad.

continuing on...

sandy.
to reaffirm and clarify. ...referring to your rig in the video.
- the gyro should be grasped only at each end of its shaft. ...which is also the best place for the bearings, to lessen the losses.
- the shaft has to be longer on one side of the gyro. 10 times longer is 1/10 the force in the opposing direction.
and
- it is best driven from the outer/circumferal side with the longer shaft. of course two gyros will then be the maximum per level.

good day.

Report Abuse
Add an Answer >>
Website. Copyright © 2019 Glenn Turner. All rights reserved. site info
Do not copy without prior permission. Click here for gyroscope products