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The Gyroscope Forum
18 September 2021 08:50
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||Everything you wanted.
||Hello again. It's been a while. Happy new year.
I have everything sorted and this will answer all questions, I think.
BTPM: better than perpetual motion.
(just that perpetual motion so far sounds like breaking even.)
Firstly, how a gyro reacts.
- I also mention things I don't agree with in Eric's video.
- a gyro is torqued top and bottom and reacts.
- the reaction is felt at its max. at 90 degrees from both top and bottom.
-- Eric, the acceleration and decceleration times are: the time for 90 degrees of gyro spin.
-- and, he states that he will put weights on inplace of his hand so we can see he's not pushing it,
--- and states that a torque does not create an acceleration like higher maths dictate.
--- well, the static weights he hangs on the gyro are going in a circular path, which requires acceleration.
- the force felt towards, at, and from 90 degrees, causes the precession and more.
-- note, that the more rigid a gyro is, the less it will flex before being forced to come back in at, top or bottom.
-- the gyro molecules transfer the torque to 90 degrees to cause precession, and then
-- to keep orientation to the horizontal, as it comes back "in" at next 90 degrees point, top or bottom.
--- the faster a gyro spins, the less time is spent giving that part of the gyro torque, so the slower it precesses.
--- again, a fast spinning gyro has less force-time acting on each of its parts and so has less to give back.
-- (car radiators are similar, if you remove the thermostat, the water is not in the rad. long enough to
--- give off the heat it was given.)
- in this video: (not mine)
- turn off the sound, all you need is to see the torque length vs. the orbital radius, and then upward precession.
-- we all know if you force in the direction of prescession it will react at 90 degrees and go up
- the torque bar length, the mass of the gyro, and the orbital radius are related.
- in the video, because the orbital radius is less than the torque bar length, the gyro is forcing more than is
-- required for an orbital precession of this size and the gyro precesses upward.
--- if you were to prevent the gyro from going up, it would still be forcing upwards but,
--- the gyro would then move faster in the orbital direction,
--- just like when you stop normal precession, the gyro falls due to the effect of gravity.
- the interesting thing now is, the gyro is still forcing upward, torquing about its center of mass
-- and so it is feeling heavier.
-- the gyro now wants to precess faster in the orbital direction for a 2nd reason
-- this would cause it to precess upwards more, it can't,
-- so it goes faster still, and again "gravity" increases, it's heavier...
--- to what end?
read on, i will be using a top and not a gimbled gyroscope.
so now we start towards BTPM
- in this video at 06:00: (not mine)
- you will witness a top spinning. It is one solid piece, no bearings.
- as the top goes horizontal, you see the disk spinning on the opposite side of the orbital radius
-- in reference to the torquing end.
- you also see the torquing end is touching the ground and spinning in the "correct" direction for orbiting.
-- (pay attention to the sound. It is the sound of slippage, which we will get rid of.
- what you see is just like the first video except with a bonus.
-- where the top is touching the ground, if there were no slippage, and was longer, and
-- the shaft extended out the other side of the disk and was kept from going up, and
-- the pivot point of the system was ensured with a bearinged support that allowed it to flex a little up and down,
-- then it would sustain it's gyro spin. Infact it would speed up spin and orbits to the point
-- the spin speed governs its precessional speed and balances out.
--- all done in 1/4 spin increments, so, fairly quickly.
- the gearing/speed can be controlled via:
-- top's mass. larger for slower speeds
-- torquing arm's length. longer for lower speeds.
-- torquing arm's diameter where it touches the ground. smaller for lower speeds.
that is BTPM
for the levitation
--(( sorry i can't find the video to demonstrate. ))
- you can see the unspupported center of mass, from 4) above, is torquing itself now, on either side, and
-- if the flywheel was light enough, and fast enough, you could get enough difference of force at the ends that
-- if you put one the opposite way above the first going in the same direction for balance and then
-- a set above those in the opposite orbital direction
-- up up and away.
what i think is being missed mostly is trying to force the reaction out of the gyroscopes and causing the flywheel to want to shatter itself.
- just like a slightly unbalanced wheel on a car will go in and out of vibration as the speed increases.
That's the end of my journey.
Everything is there that you could ask for, as far as i can see.
A little fame, a little money, would be nice...
I'd like to settle down in a little house on the side of a hill, with a sweet cribbage opponent for company. :)
Oh, and if it doesn't do what I can only see it must do, well, then,
it proves that it can't be done in the macro world.
That if that there setup is not taking gravity back into the "force" sector of physics,
then we will have to rely on the quantum tunneling of exotic particles to figure it out for us.
that's my 2 cents.
- it really has been a lot of fun. only wish dad was around for at least the hype of it,
- if not for the reality of it, too.
some additions and clarifications.
- the top torque forces the gyro away from the orbital pivot point and
- when the that part of the gyro is interacting with the bottom torque
- they fight each other and help keep the gyro at its angle with the horizontal.
- also, the bottom torque forces in and has the same fight with the top torquing area,
- having the same helping effect.
in 3), the third line would be clearer as:
-- required for a "normal" precession around an orbit of this size, so the gyro precesses upwards.
- as Eric showed, when you add weight, the gyro precesses faster.
-- (true here as there is now more force in the force-time moment.)
- as for preventing upward precession and allowing the gyro to orbit faster,
-- the molecules of the gyro are hitting a "wall" and bouncing back with, now, more force.
-- and as long as you never inhibit one direction, in this case the orbital direction,
-- you will allow the gyro to react as it reacts, in this case controlling the orbital speed.
** forcing the situation unduely will only cause molecular caos within the spinning body.
- i say "all done in 1/4 spin increments". well,
-- i was just keeping the wording inline with what i'd said before that.
- it actually starts right away and is in full effect after a 1/4 spin
-- due to the fact the molecules affect those beside them and therefore
-- the force is felt in full effect at the bottom too, after a 1/4 spin.
--- again this is the words, not the math, and i'm confident i'm close enough for now.
- when i say to put one the opposite way, i'm referring to a complet 2nd top
- and then again above those 2 would be another set of 2 tops going the opposite way.
-- this way the housing would not be torqued to twist.
again, to be clear:
the spinning disk has to have the majority of the mass, it's the system pivot point that is similar to the 1st video, between the small friction end and the disk, and closer to the disk; another part that can be adjusted for less or more upwards force.
and if you go to the first video, which is his gyro video #18, then into all his videos and find gyro video #1, that is almost exactly the setup you need.
the system pivot point is there, just remove the motor.
the small end is there and geared and has almost a complete circle to run against, except he is doing propulsion and split it. Just make the whole circle touch the small end with purple friction tape, or whatever that is.
i'm rewriting the whole thing for clarity's sake.
All due respect but, looking at some of the setups involving gyroscopes, it's like science has been thrown out the window in search of how to please some propulsion gods. I see gyroscopes clamped and spun with opposing gyros giving intermittent "findings" as machines bounce all around, gitter, vibrate, and what have you.
All that is new in any of this are the words stating that gyroscopes take Einsteinian gravity which is not a force and extracts a gravity driven force at a rate we can control. The whole gyroscope assembly, with all its mass is going in a circle, and maintaining it's angle with the horizontal which requires force, an acceleration. You pour Einstein in, and get gravity-force out.
All that my setup does is use the gravity-force; well it's not attacting anything but it is definately not warped space anymore. Its implications have yet to determined, again, if it really is going to work and again, I can't see it not working.
Yes, I see something else that needs clearing up.
...sort of important too.
A regular precessing gyro uses Einsteinian gravity to make a force.
My setup may start like that but is quickly replaced with the force it creates itself in the "down" direction; this is where the 'will it work' part finds its place.
My setup is nolonger being fed by gravity but is creating a torque of its own in the very same direction, through arrested precession. It will actually work anywhere. It does not need a mass like that of a planet in the vicinity.
..........again, if it works. ...again, i don't see why it would not.
If you take woopyjumps' gyro project #1
make the changes i state, found above,
and put the large bearing under the ring he has,
the small end could easily be made longer to run on a larger ring.
That ring would be higher than the first and
it would be a very simple project at that point.
If you recall what i said about poorly balanced car tire vibrating,
and then think of the gyro projects showing intermittent weight loss,
it is clear to see now, that yes something is happening.
Einstein gravity is perpetual, perpetual, perpetual...
a gyroscope can turn it into a force perpetually, perpetually, perpetually...
you can rig a top to complete its orbit sooner than the force given expects so, torque/"gravity" is increased.
increased torque gives faster demanded precessional orbit, and increases gyro spin at same time.
all increasing until the gyro spin slows the process, torque/"gravity" ruled.
The faster a gyro spins, and the more rigid a gyro is,
the more efficient it is at transfering the initial torque to the point at 180degrees.
And with most of the energy keeping the gyro from "falling",
the less there is for the forced precession.
If the gyro spun at the speed of light and without resistance,
it should neither "fall", nor precess.
(And because the speed of the molecules is progressively slower as you go in towards the axis of rotation,
you'd either have the outer edge at the speed C and the rest slower, or
you'd have the closest part at C and the rest, well, breaking the law.)
** and someone should calculate the max spin speed for materials as
the internet clan has them going up to 99,000 rpm.
- somebody's going to get hurt one day.
I just want to add a reply to the point about a single gyro being 'manipulated' in any way.
I agree whole heartedly about the manipulation part.
I even stated that its being forced is what is causing the intermittance of positive results.
Mine is not manipulating it at all; it is in a setup that leaves it to its own devices, although some control is needed incase of it working too well, for safety reasons, and of course to be able to control the speed by altering the setup in which it does its thing.
2 more points i'd like to comment on, now that i'm getting feedback.
1) A gimbled gyro does not impress me other than to raise the curiosity level; its center of mass does not move, and it does no work.
- There is zero velocity. Yes, the spin has speed, the precession has speed but, that's all.
- When you hang a weight on one side, it is no longer just a gimbled gyro; things get interesting.
When the gyro is torqued by the normal force and is then allowed to precess-out an orbit, you now have the center of mass moving. This center of mass is going in a circular path which requires acceleration; work is being done.
If you don't spin the gyro, you have a disk on a stick and if one end is stopped from falling due to the normal force, and if it was not torqued top and bottom, it would, precess??? No, of course not, that would be silly to think a plate on a stick would not fall to the ground, wouldn't it. (said in the spirit of an Eric Laithwaite rhetorical comment.) ..the plate would, of course, twist about its center of mass so as to stand itself up, and then hit the ground as vertical as possible, dependent on disk radius and stick length.
2) After seeing the amount of work others have done building setups, pouring their hearts and minds into this topic, (and many times building what someone else already has regardless of the fact it doesn't give obvious results.) ...I figure when someone like woopyjump has a setup, #18, and only has something simple to do to show the community there is great reason to get excited about, and maybe build what I speak of, that it would be nice for someone else to build and see what I have already seen both in my mind and through others' setups. Does it feel more like I want to share the experience? 'Cause it should.
a brand new day. a brand new start.
||24 February 2021
Answers (Ordered by Date)
||dave brown - 12/03/2021 07:51:35
| ||Another way to see the torque on a gyro is using what we already know and that's rocket science. Yes it is rocket science.|
Both a rocket and a bullet are spun so that if one area/side has more drag or force than the rest, it will be spread out in all of the 360 degrees perpendicular to the direction it was sent in. This will help keep it going in the wanted direction, and you may see wobble.
A gyroscope also spins, and the torque at the top and bottom, due to the normal force, which are in different directions and are trying to change the direction of the axis of spin, are also spread out as the gyro spins.
due to the setup, a gyro on a stick is allowed freedom of movement in all directions except for the normal force's restrictions. The top and bottom of the gyro, being torqued and spinning, travel a path that returns a torque to the stick in an unhindered direction which shows itself as precession.
||dave brown - 29/03/2021 00:58:38
and if this does work,
they'll probably find that it's tied to the expansion of the universe,
what with all the spins restricted in their movements,
making energy from what we call nothing and remember,
waves are not anything,
they are an effect and that effect
can ball itself up into matter.
cause, why not. if they're going to believe in a god, they're going to make me rich for this.
cheers and cheetos.
maybe it's connected to half lifes as well.
i'm gonna reach for the stars man. all you can do is burnout rather than fade away.
||Gardner Martin - 30/04/2021 12:29:59
| ||Verbally both incontinent and incoherent. Scientists and mathematicians have understood precession for hundreds of years. Please catch up, or shut up.|
||dave brown - 03/05/2021 05:59:25
| ||oh great one. we have to take apart the bricks to know how to put them together, without your work to see and learn from.|
now do like the other opinion generater and be unwelcomed elsewhere. i am the best and always shall be for not with to and for to from and other for which to have or not have the ins of the outs that come by and around for not with to stand and fall and prove me right once again.
that was specially designed for ya. don't read it. don't comment on it. don't reply to it... or you don't understand it.
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