Question |
| Asked by: |
will thompson |
| Subject: |
Gyro-stabilised motorcycle |
| Question: |
Hi folks,
I am in my final year stuying transport design at university. For one of my final projects i hope to design a gyroscopically stabilised fully enclosed motorbike. Hopefully you can help me.
The plan in to have a secondary rim in the rear wheel that will spin independantly of the wheel enabling the bike to stay upright. This would be run by a separate motor to the one that drives the bike to the wheel can continuously spin at the desired rpm. There will be a weighting system that will slide to the the direction in which the bike is steering allowing it to lean into the corners.
So i have a few questions first of all do you think this is idea is sound in princple?
Also if it is could some one tell me how to work out how fast the rim would have to spin to hold up a certain weight motorcycle
And how to work out how much weight would be needed to force the bike over with the gyro still spinning.
Thanks for your time any help would be greatly appreciated
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| Date: |
19 October 2007
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Answers (Ordered by Date)
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| Answer: |
Ron V. Parsons - 26/10/2007 01:51:55
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| | I don't believe it will work. As a matter of fact, I think I know it won't work.
Built the way you describe, a tilting force would make the gyroscope try to spin the motorcycle around a vertical axis, not resist the tilt. Since the bike can't rotate around a vertical axis (two wheels on the ground resist it...they don't want to move sideways), nothing happens. The bike just falls over.
I did the math years ago....and built a model....didn't work.
Prove it to yourself by buying a toy gyroscope. Rig it up in a wire frame so the axis is horizontal and the 'feet' are in the plane of the rotor. Spin it up and watch it fall over.
If I have this wrong...by all means...correct me.
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| Answer: |
Damon Kendall - 28/11/2007 04:40:19
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| | I'd like to share some of my observations and thoughts on Will's question and Ron's response.
While I agree with Ron there is hope for Will's success. I purchased a toy gyro stabilized motorcycle at radio shack a couple of years ago. The basic design is as you have described and it works fine. Since there is no rider to counter steer and lean to change the center of gravity (this is effectively the couple that causes precession and in turn balanced turning) the steering head both turns the wheel and shifts the center of gravity. As regards the inner gyro rotational velocity; within limits slower speeds allow tighter turns and higher speeds allow wider turns for a set shift in the center of gravity. Gray wrote a text on gyros and presents a print and a technical description of an early 20th century toy gyro stabilized motorcycle.
I understand the gyro must be free to precess or it will just topple over. Actually it will try to precess about the third axis and will likely fail to do so. However when the cycle rolls forward along a circular path the gyro is in effect precessing about the vertical. The catch is the axis of rotation is some distance from the cycle. It's at the center of the circle it's traveling along. To stabilize the cycle at rest would complicate Will's wheel design as hewould have to design a gimble to allow for preccession about a vertical axis within the wheel. Anyhow this would also satisfy Ron's dynamic constraint.
I'll end with this related observation. I have propelled my bike along by quickly leaning and turning side to side without pedalling. I can go up a slight grade in this manner.
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| Answer: |
Alan Taylor - 09/12/2007 18:18:57
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| | In the 1980s there were plans published in Model Mechanics of a working model of a motorcycle, complete with rider. I think the completed model was about 6" (150 mm) or so long. It was said that it did not need any additional gyroscopic assistance to stay upright as the two wheels provided all that was necessary. They were correctly spoked wheels with no additional 'weighting'.
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| Answer: |
RJ Fackler - 17/08/2008 19:20:58
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| | Yes, look at this web page: http://cobbsblog.com/gyro/gyro-x-menu.html
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| Answer: |
Ron V Parsons - 19/02/2011 19:03:29
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| | It IS possible to build a gryroscopically stabilized motorcycle, but you must use an active feedback loop to do it. In fact, a guy actually built a train that worked this way: http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/odgyro.Html
The trick is that you need to sense when the cycle begins to tip, and then generate a force against the gyroscope to try to rotate it at a 90 degree angle to the direction of tip. This force will be transformed by the gyro into a force resisting the tilt.
This 'sensing' can be quite simple....I believe the railroad cars had the gyros axis horizontal and at right angles to the direction of motion. Then, a little rubber wheel on the gyro axis would touch one of the gimbals if the vehicle started tipping....this friction would attempt to rotate the gyro around a vertical axis, which gets turned into a force in the front and back horizontal axis.....restoring the vehicle to straight up.
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| Answer: |
eric ducharme - 16/03/2011 22:14:54
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| | I have been working with full size gyro stabilized motorcycles for 15 years, we have built working prototypes and the cool thing is we also charge batteries with gyro so the bike as a commuter does not need to be plugged in. We are hoping to get a $5000 scooter version avail in next few years.
Eric Ducharme
New Hybrid Technologies
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| Answer: |
George Barnes - 01/11/2011 00:11:24
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| | Sounds like a feasible good idea if it can be restricted to slow speeds only. Once the counter steer action kicks in, can't the gyro effect be neutralised?
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billy heddins - 18/01/2012 04:58:05
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| | Here is a link to a youtube video of this very thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pZTy6SoGzE
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gmbajszar - 27/11/2012 17:27:44
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| | On my page under 'sci fi flight' I have a video of a company building a gyroscopic motorcycle at gmbajszar.wix.com/mbcim
Gyroscopic motorcycles have been around for a hundred years. Take a hand spinned gyroscope on the table, and the faster it spins the more the lever aligns to the top in central position. You need a sharp bottom on which it spins, a spinning disk and the lever that pulls upward with faster and faster spins. Not too hard science.
My interest on the page is if in the future we can use gyroscopic balancing technology for flying motorcycles which have no airplane wings, yet remain flying in perfect balance, as if they had wings. Gyroscopes are hidden wings.
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Joe Public - 23/06/2013 21:01:18
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| | It uses TWO gyros offset at an angle. The same principle of the 'steady-cam.'
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| Answer: |
Joe Public - 23/06/2013 21:02:26
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| | It uses TWO gyros offset at an angle. The same principle of the 'steady-cam.'
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