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23 November 2024 19:55
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Welcome to the gyroscope forum. If you have a question about gyroscopes in general,
want to know how they work, or what they can be used for then you can leave your question here for others to answer.
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Question |
| Asked by: |
Mike Page |
| Subject: |
Can the human body generate small gyroscopic forces? |
| Question: |
The reason I ask is because I've noticed in martial arts that there are some difficult to explain forces but clearly the human body is limited in its rotational ability (except when rotating arms).
One example, where an unexpected force is felt is when the recipient of a straight forward punch feels a downward force.
I'm guessing that any such forces would be small but since they are felt they aren't negligible.
In martial arts you can rotate your hips to create a circular motion. You can also make a round-house kick where the leg is perpendicular to the body and the hip throws forward the leg and the foot goes forward (so the leg can behave like a gyroscope's rim). Or a round-house punch where the arm behaves like the rim. Or a chop where the hand behaves like the rim. Or a kick where the foot behaves like the rim and the knee is the pivoting point.
But it doesn't have to involve the whole-body it could just be from rotating arms or from jumping and kicking (the rotational movement in the legs).
A lot of potential and kinetic energy is used in martial arts so why not gyroscopic forces. Similarly, rotating and helical movement and centrifugal force is also used.
Thank you in advance for any understanding on this.. |
| Date: |
13 January 2008
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Answers (Ordered by Date)
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| Answer: |
Mike Page - 13/01/2008 05:54:14
| | | Maybe I should add that in a straight forward punch, with the right arm, the fist and the forearm are rotated 180 degrees anti-clockwise at the last possible instant as the arm is extended (i.e. the fist is palm up at the hip and then knuckles up when the punch makes contact). The right shoulder is rotated forward (left shoulder rotated back) with the punch and just as the punch makes contact the right shoulder is pulled back whipping the arm forward. The right-hip is rotated back (left-hip rotated forward) and thrown forward just before the punch (this feels faster than the punch itself) and pulled back to make the upper body whip forward. Also, as the punch is executed the left shoulder is initially pulled back and the left elbow is pushed back so the redundant arm is not redundant it whips backwards in sympathy with the forward punching arm.
Similarly, in a straight forward punch, with the left arm, the fist and the forearm are rotated 180 degrees clockwise as the arm is extended. The left-hip is rotated back (right-hip rotated forward) and thrown forward just before the punch.
I also suspect that the velocity of the punch is significant but difficult to quantify since most of the speed is built up in the last quarter of an inch before contact (due to the whipping motion in the hips and the shoulders). So the velocity of the punch is what you would expect at the end of a whip (in the last quarter inch of motion). But the actual distance of the punch can be greater due to forward movement of the whole body. So it could be more than a metre.
In summary, in a straight forward punch: There is circular movement at the hips, at the shoulders, and in the fist. You get a whip-like motion from the hips, and the shoulders which amplifies the velocity of the punch at contact tremendously.
Also, if you make the punch from a standing position you still get to use the hips and the whipping motion generated by the hips.
The end result in what the recipient feels as the fist twists into their body, is not just the whipped punch, but they also feel a downward force from where the punch makes contact. I can't work out why this is so. Since the fist is only moving forward horizontally to the flow. So it must be something to do with gyroscopic force.
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| Answer: |
Mike Page - 13/01/2008 06:02:38
| | | Correction to the penultimate sentence in the last paragraph.
I meant "moving horizontally to the floor" and not "horizontally to the flow".
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 14/01/2008 15:35:43
| | | Hi Mike,
I think your right. Jumping off a diving board a diver may twist and turn and do jack knifes however he pleases. This as I understand defies physic, because he is suspended in air with nothing to push against, but it seams clear that he is using gyroscopic reactions anytime he wishes to begin a move, reverse a move, or to end a move. In boxing your whole body from your ankles up twist into the hard punches. Your last twist into the punch we call a snap. It is a wrist action and the two largest knuckles twist ‘downward’ near vertical the instant after contact. Maybe it is the same in marshal arts in that your knuckles also push slightly, but firmly downward.
Very slight gyroscopic actions in any number of marshal art moves?…I'm pretty sure you have it right.
Glenn,
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| Answer: |
Mike Page - 14/01/2008 16:09:55
| | | Thank you Glenn. That's great. There is so very little on the Internet that links gyroscopes and biology.
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