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27 November 2024 10:09
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Question |
| Asked by: |
art alexander |
| Subject: |
gyro time delay |
| Question: |
Many years ago Prof. Laithwaite and I and were both members of a committee and we talked from time to time of his ideas as we walked to the train home. He made two several interesting points to me.
1) He had not done the maths before the RS lecture. but he did it since and still and conventional theoty was correct. BUT he still believed that there was something that had eluded him.
2) He likened the opoperation of the gyrosope to a electrical circuit at resonance, with the fundamenta difference that power could easily be extracted from the resonant circuit. He was still trying to do this later by having the gyro move, I quote, "in translation" at the same time as spinning.
3) we both agreed that action and reaction are equal and opposite "BUT NOT NECESSARILIY AT THE SAME TIME - IF ONLY WE COULD BORROW A LITTLE TIME AND PAY IT BACK LATER"
I have thought about what he meant for many years since. Does any one understand what he meant?
My own thougfht were that the potential energy gained by lifting against gravity coulld be stored in rotatiana energy of the gyro whic had to be dischrged later. |
| Date: |
17 March 2008
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Answers (Ordered by Date)
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 17/03/2008 19:33:05
| | | Dear Art,
You and Professor Laithwaite agreed that action and reaction are equal and opposite then he added "BUT NOT NECESSARILY AT THE SAME TIME - IF ONLY WE COULD BORROW A LITTLE TIME AND PAY IT BACK LATER"
You ask a good question does anybody know what he meant? Perhaps yes. I thought this over umpteen years ago. If that could be done IP would have been successful long ago. I believe my first post here in 2004 was about ‘time delay’. From much longer than that there were many examples I was fond of considering if I could remember them all, but the simplest idea is rotating balls inside a chase. If centrifuge rearward could be reserved, until it rotated forward and then released we couldn’t ask for a better form of propulsion. That can’t be done, but something else might. Also if there were a method where matter in sufficient quantity could be converted back and forth from energy to mass as it rotated you could produce some strange effects, but not necessarily producing propulsion. The effects of inertia are pretty stubborn in addition to being complicated thank God; otherwise we would have an unstable universe and be like liquid people in a liquid existence. Excuse me!
We can remember that the Professor was keen on producing figure-eight gyro movements as well as his last mass transfer… both were a kind of walking gyroscope with side to side half precessions moving the gyro forward, or upward where upon it was then forced backwards producing equal and opposite forces and then the gyro was suppose to stop moving rearward by means of the continuing forward one half precessions produced without rearward reactions, advance and then be again shoved backwards every time. We can note that his vertically applied forces from side to side were delayed from one to the other and so in a way everything he did involved time delays. I thought this would be easier to explain. It’s pretty cold to me.
Any information including the man’s general nature and his outlook on a number of unrelated subjects you can think of would be interesting to read. So you walked through the damp city street each morning and from the train home each evening? Interesting. Tell us more.
Regards,
Glenn
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 21/03/2008 14:14:03
| | | Hi Glenn
Eric Laithwaite and I met only once a month. I was a junior member of the committee an didn't at first have courage to talk to him. We both went home towards Waterloo station at about 10pm, a 10 minute walk. Sometimes he only discussed his hobby butterflies and moths. He had noted that certain sensors on a moth had spacings in the infra-red wave lengths, he thought that was the reason that although attracted to light they did not fly to the moon!!!
I had long been fascinated by gyros having worked for two navigational instrument companies where we were developing (again) tuning fork gyros. I say, again, because Lord Kelvin, i.e Mr Thompson as he was, so I was told, started off with such devices but could not make them accurately with then available technology.
I have often wondered if the vibrating gyros which are coplanar would be a better bet than rotating devices for providing an external force. I don't think that the arms need be of the same mass , only that the resonant frequency must be the same. They would need to be very large (and noisy?)
On thing Laithwaite also said was the apparent lift which he demonstrated with the flywheel on the end of a long pole could be shown to be because of his strong wrist. I tried to lift an equivalent weight the same way and couldn't.. all he s id was there there is SOMETHING there.
I have tried the swing gyro pendulum experiment and it did move the carriage on a glass able top, but I cant prove that the motion was not caused by the initial force of displacing the pendulum and the the swinging motion changed the friction on the table in the way that vibration does.
If the time delay effect could be harnessed, I thing the way would be to cascade a number of gyros so mounted that a pulsating force was deliverd horizontally while the reaction was delivered vertically. If two such cascaded, opposite phase, trains of gyros were on a wheeled chassis I think it would make and interesting vehicle with rather odd steering anti-skid characteristics
I am reluctant to try such experiments now at my advance age I still have the scar above an eye where a rotating device broke at 15000 rpm!!
After Laithewaite retired he became Emeritus Pro at a university in Brighton ( not Imperial college as was his due) by to the kind offices of a friend. It is difficult to convey the appalling behaviour of the establishment to him after he challenged the accepted theory and although we never met again we talked on the phone once or twice. He said he was making some progress trying to make the centre of rotation not act through its axis but did not invite me to his lab. I had hoped that I could offer some financial assistance but it was not to be. Shortly after he departed to California to work in some branch of NASA. on something confidential. I expect it was magnetic launching device but don't know.
I hope the above was of some interest. I remember him as very charming and courteous on the committee where he was chairman. He was replaced at the end of the year.
regds Art
Age does get to be a problem; I will 79 next month and now think much more slowly, but I was once a Royal Society Industrial research fellow. Please free to add my original Email as a thread if you can.
regards
Arthur
Vibrating gyroscope, or tuning fork gyroscope
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrating_structure_gyroscope
Click on, halteres and Coriolis force.
Glenn,
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| Answer: |
EDH - 30/03/2008 03:44:14
| | | Hi Art:
I agree with the notion of time delay. Essentially, a time delay propulsion system would have an action-reaction system such as two ice skaters pushing away from each other, operating within an external accelerating system, such as a moving ice rink. The result is that both the action and reaction force move in a designated direction resulting in increased action and decreased reaction. In this way, time is delayed by moving space in the same way that an arrival time of a trip is delayed if the destination distance is increased. The bonus here is that the destination is decreased for the action component. The net result is an apparent action without reaction.
My obervation is that there are gyroscopic configurations which are capable of creating "accelerations within accelerations" resulting in the time delay and apparent reaction free propulsion that you have suggested.
EDH
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 31/03/2008 02:24:24
| | | Hi Art,
Thank you for the information. I liked it a lot.
Hi EDH,
Yes, I agree. Very good. Your observation below is very much my observation also.
“My observation is that there are gyroscopic configurations which are capable of creating "accelerations within accelerations" resulting in the time delay …”
Glenn,
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 16/04/2008 20:52:32
| | | SOMETHING STRANGE
I have the answer to the most important test after all this time. It is the foundation for a better design I’ve mentioned for years. I recognized a strange phenomena years ago, but I couldn’t entirely accept it as a viable design solution, because even as I came to understand the why and how it happens it was still no less than outrageous to me.
-- When a rotating gyroscope is sat vertically upright on a table and downward force is applied on the end of an axel, gyroscopic functions deny the rim in contact with the table from sliding sideways, outward from the area of the applied force. Instead the gyroscope rolls around the area of applied force, coordinately inward. The force against sliding can be relatively very powerful and unmistakable. This inward force is in keeping with Sandy Kidd’s long insistence of an illogical, seemingly imposable inward force. The force is real. In the above repeatable observation it is proven.--
This strange phenomenon that would at first seem to defy physics is actually in accordance with mechanical calculations of uneven deflections cause and effect and would fit precisely into the order of classical dynamics. Still it is the strangest phenomena of all. I feel strongly it will someday provide the key to inertial propulsion.
Of great significance is that the applied force need not consist of mass, gravity and horizontal inertia resistance – just force, only force. You can apply force at one place, release it, move it and apply it somewhere else without consequences. You can’t do that if the source of applied force has much mass. It is in the situation outlined here, as if you could make matter disappear and reappear repeatedly and make time delays occur when, where and however you please – both and all in one deal.
Glenn,
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 07/06/2008 18:40:26
| | | Hi Art,
I hope this finds you well. You spoke of Professor Laithwaite’s wish for time delays. I think he knew about them, or at least sensed them. It might seem surprising, but he and you and all of us have been playing with time delay every since we picked up our first gyroscope. I have some drawings that explain how precession is enacted and supported that I may eventually send around to most everyone who wants them. While the drawings explain particle inertial resistance to acceleration and particle inertial resistance to deceleration, which result in twisting the gyro around a fulcrum, they also present time delay quite well. It’s pretty simple really, but like everything else only after you know.
The opposite reaction to particle acceleration is halted by static equilibrium caused by and equal and opposite particle deceleration. The drawings make this understandable with a little effort on the part of the reviewer. But anyway, partials resist being accelerated outward in the direction of centrifuge, but though they resist they are accelerated outward anyway. Now that the partials gaine outward velocity they are rotated in the flywheel to another time and place where they are forced to decelerate. This happens four times in each rotation. You see reaction is delayed while it is transported to another position in space. As strange and completely opposite to classical dynamics as this all sounds I assure everyone it is true. That is what the gyro does and is the the beginning of the causes that can separate spinning, whirling things from known physics. It will be much easier to understand all this for those who would like to have pictures sometime. If anyone wants them ask. That way I can decide how best to go about sending them to you. I get a bonus. If no one asks I’ll know few read here and fewer still are actually much interested in the subject. ehawkins32@comcast.net
Glenn,
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| Answer: |
glenn hawkins - 25/08/2008 12:42:15
| | | Dear Art,
I sent the information you ask for. If you got it you have to double click on the image of a paper clip to open for sketches and explanations. For whatever reason neither you, or Sandy Kidd responds to my sent messages. Did you receive my messages?
Regards Glenn,
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